1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee issue
03-17-2013, 02:57 PM
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Model: Cherokee
1994 Jeep Grand Cherokee issue
Hi,
I have a 94 Grand Cherokee that I am trying to get road worthy. It has some kind of relay around the carburetor and I'd like to know how to get power to it. My dad has been messing around with it because when we got it, we were told it was the fuel pump, but after some messing around, fuel pump is fine. He had it going for about five minutes, pulled it out of the garage and it stalled. It won't start back up, no matter what. If I could get some feedback, that'd be great! Thanks!
I have a 94 Grand Cherokee that I am trying to get road worthy. It has some kind of relay around the carburetor and I'd like to know how to get power to it. My dad has been messing around with it because when we got it, we were told it was the fuel pump, but after some messing around, fuel pump is fine. He had it going for about five minutes, pulled it out of the garage and it stalled. It won't start back up, no matter what. If I could get some feedback, that'd be great! Thanks!
03-17-2013, 04:19 PM
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Year: 1994
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L
Hi,
I have a 94 Grand Cherokee that I am trying to get road worthy. It has some kind of relay around the carburetor and I'd like to know how to get power to it. My dad has been messing around with it because when we got it, we were told it was the fuel pump, but after some messing around, fuel pump is fine. He had it going for about five minutes, pulled it out of the garage and it stalled. It won't start back up, no matter what. If I could get some feedback, that'd be great! Thanks!
I have a 94 Grand Cherokee that I am trying to get road worthy. It has some kind of relay around the carburetor and I'd like to know how to get power to it. My dad has been messing around with it because when we got it, we were told it was the fuel pump, but after some messing around, fuel pump is fine. He had it going for about five minutes, pulled it out of the garage and it stalled. It won't start back up, no matter what. If I could get some feedback, that'd be great! Thanks!
03-17-2013, 04:48 PM
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Yep that is the dreaded throttle body. Had similar issues with my yj until I did a Weber carb kit swap and now there is no problem starting. The nice thing, I live where we don't have emissions yet so I was able to remove all the vacuum lines except two I believe..
For those that live in an emissions area they do make the carb conversion kits for you too.
For those that live in an emissions area they do make the carb conversion kits for you too.
03-17-2013, 07:16 PM
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Year: 90
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Yep that is the dreaded throttle body. Had similar issues with my yj until I did a Weber carb kit swap and now there is no problem starting. The nice thing, I live where we don't have emissions yet so I was able to remove all the vacuum lines except two I believe..
For those that live in an emissions area they do make the carb conversion kits for you too.
For those that live in an emissions area they do make the carb conversion kits for you too.
Huh???
The throttle body doesn't do anything but meter air.
It is a multi-port injection motor. Nothing is in that throttle body except air.
There is no carb kit for those engines... and there is NO way rigging some carb on them would pass emissions.
To the OP.... are you sure you have good fuel pressure and the correctly delivery rate? Have you tested it with a fuel pressure gauge and flow rate tested it?
With a little bit of pressure in the fuel rail, the motor will start and idle until the it drops.
A quick and dirty way of testing the fuel pump operation, is to turn the key on and listen to the fuel tank. You should be able to hear the pump turn on and try to bring the pressure to the correct level.
The crankshaft position sensor could be the problem. But normally when one fails it just fails and you don't get the engine started at all.
Verify you have spark with a spark tester. If you have spark.. the crankshaft position sensor is just fine.
03-18-2013, 08:22 AM
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Huh???
The throttle body doesn't do anything but meter air.
It is a multi-port injection motor. Nothing is in that throttle body except air.
There is no carb kit for those engines... and there is NO way rigging some carb on them would pass emissions.
To the OP.... are you sure you have good fuel pressure and the correctly delivery rate? Have you tested it with a fuel pressure gauge and flow rate tested it?
With a little bit of pressure in the fuel rail, the motor will start and idle until the it drops.
A quick and dirty way of testing the fuel pump operation, is to turn the key on and listen to the fuel tank. You should be able to hear the pump turn on and try to bring the pressure to the correct level.
The crankshaft position sensor could be the problem. But normally when one fails it just fails and you don't get the engine started at all.
Verify you have spark with a spark tester. If you have spark.. the crankshaft position sensor is just fine.
The throttle body doesn't do anything but meter air.
It is a multi-port injection motor. Nothing is in that throttle body except air.
There is no carb kit for those engines... and there is NO way rigging some carb on them would pass emissions.
To the OP.... are you sure you have good fuel pressure and the correctly delivery rate? Have you tested it with a fuel pressure gauge and flow rate tested it?
With a little bit of pressure in the fuel rail, the motor will start and idle until the it drops.
A quick and dirty way of testing the fuel pump operation, is to turn the key on and listen to the fuel tank. You should be able to hear the pump turn on and try to bring the pressure to the correct level.
The crankshaft position sensor could be the problem. But normally when one fails it just fails and you don't get the engine started at all.
Verify you have spark with a spark tester. If you have spark.. the crankshaft position sensor is just fine.
Now if you would like to read more here are some links to educate everyone on this carb conversion kit. I did it so I know it is possible but it was done on my YJ which has the 4.2L engine.
now for the links:
Weber carbs direct
Google search for weber jeep conversion kit
a very good thread at jeepforum.com with links in it as well
ebay listings for kits
Now if that motor in the grand is anything like that in the cherokee it could be converted with the right intake manifold and other parts. Getting around the silly electronic controls would be the trick. But to out right say it isn't possible is wrong or to say that there isn't a kit is wrong. When there is a will there is a way!
Back to the OP - I wish you luck. Too bad there is so much in electronic controls on vehicles now a days, a sensor for this and a sensor for that and if you don't do something right they don't work, just a mess... In honor to you and your right to get answers I will keep quiet and let this thread progress without any input from me. It is just a shame that some discredit without knowing all the facts out there.
03-18-2013, 05:08 PM
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Year: 90
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Double Face Palm.....
In a multi-port system the injectors are in the heads or the block. For the 4.0l and 5.2l they both have injectors in the head. So unless you can find a head that doesn't have injector holes you would have that issue to deal with.
The kit you are referring to ONLY works on the Wrangler up to 90. Which would be the 4.2 engine. In 1991, Wranglers received the 4.0l for the first time as the Chrysler redesign took effect.
The Cherokee(and the Grand) did not receive the 4.2l(258ci). The early model Cherokees received either the AMC 2.5l or the GM 2.8l Both of those engines were carb equipped in 1984. The AMC 2.5l went to throttle body injection starting in 1985, while the GM 2.8l remained carb equipped until discontinued with the 1986 models. The 4.0l debuted in 1987 and was multi-port injection its entire life. With the 1991 Chrysler design take over, the Wrangler finally received the more powerful(and better fuel economy) 4.0l multi-port injection engines.
On the issue of emissions... States generally have one of two methodology of testing. First and most basic is visual. If something is different than stock AND it doesn't have an approved exemption... you fail. The other is sniffer testing. This measures the exhaust gases for a few elements. Each vehicle and model year will have a certain set of measures it has to achieve or you fail. There is no carb ever made that will be able to outperform a properly operating multi-port injection system at a sniffer test, and not being stock, or having an approved exemption, you will fail.
Now... onto the OP.. She said she has a 94 Grand. The only two engines in the US are the 4.0l or the 5.2l both are multi-port fuel injection. No carb kit...none. She would spend so much money trying to adapt some carb to it that she could put in a new motor and not mess with it.
The 4.2l(258ci) in the Wrangler was a carbed motor originally, so of course there are going to be replacement kits. Poor performance and lousy fuel economy are the reason that companies like Howell,Edelbrock and Holley all offer throttle body injection kits for 4.2l(258ci) engines
In a multi-port system the injectors are in the heads or the block. For the 4.0l and 5.2l they both have injectors in the head. So unless you can find a head that doesn't have injector holes you would have that issue to deal with.
The kit you are referring to ONLY works on the Wrangler up to 90. Which would be the 4.2 engine. In 1991, Wranglers received the 4.0l for the first time as the Chrysler redesign took effect.
The Cherokee(and the Grand) did not receive the 4.2l(258ci). The early model Cherokees received either the AMC 2.5l or the GM 2.8l Both of those engines were carb equipped in 1984. The AMC 2.5l went to throttle body injection starting in 1985, while the GM 2.8l remained carb equipped until discontinued with the 1986 models. The 4.0l debuted in 1987 and was multi-port injection its entire life. With the 1991 Chrysler design take over, the Wrangler finally received the more powerful(and better fuel economy) 4.0l multi-port injection engines.
On the issue of emissions... States generally have one of two methodology of testing. First and most basic is visual. If something is different than stock AND it doesn't have an approved exemption... you fail. The other is sniffer testing. This measures the exhaust gases for a few elements. Each vehicle and model year will have a certain set of measures it has to achieve or you fail. There is no carb ever made that will be able to outperform a properly operating multi-port injection system at a sniffer test, and not being stock, or having an approved exemption, you will fail.
Now... onto the OP.. She said she has a 94 Grand. The only two engines in the US are the 4.0l or the 5.2l both are multi-port fuel injection. No carb kit...none. She would spend so much money trying to adapt some carb to it that she could put in a new motor and not mess with it.
The 4.2l(258ci) in the Wrangler was a carbed motor originally, so of course there are going to be replacement kits. Poor performance and lousy fuel economy are the reason that companies like Howell,Edelbrock and Holley all offer throttle body injection kits for 4.2l(258ci) engines
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03-18-2013, 07:13 PM
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Year: 1995
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 with all of the noise and clatter
Going from fuel injection to a carburated system is taking a HUGE step backwards. But if you like hard starts on cold mornings, crappy performance and fuel mileage, then by all means swap a carb on there. There is a reason that NOBODY makes a single vehicle with a carburator today, it's because they suck and are inefficient. Fuel injection is actually a more simple system, at least it is for me.
03-18-2013, 10:57 PM
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Double Face Palm.....
In a multi-port system the injectors are in the heads or the block. For the 4.0l and 5.2l they both have injectors in the head. So unless you can find a head that doesn't have injector holes you would have that issue to deal with.
The kit you are referring to ONLY works on the Wrangler up to 90. Which would be the 4.2 engine. In 1991, Wranglers received the 4.0l for the first time as the Chrysler redesign took effect.
The Cherokee(and the Grand) did not receive the 4.2l(258ci). The early model Cherokees received either the AMC 2.5l or the GM 2.8l Both of those engines were carb equipped in 1984. The AMC 2.5l went to throttle body injection starting in 1985, while the GM 2.8l remained carb equipped until discontinued with the 1986 models. The 4.0l debuted in 1987 and was multi-port injection its entire life. With the 1991 Chrysler design take over, the Wrangler finally received the more powerful(and better fuel economy) 4.0l multi-port injection engines.
On the issue of emissions... States generally have one of two methodology of testing. First and most basic is visual. If something is different than stock AND it doesn't have an approved exemption... you fail. The other is sniffer testing. This measures the exhaust gases for a few elements. Each vehicle and model year will have a certain set of measures it has to achieve or you fail. There is no carb ever made that will be able to outperform a properly operating multi-port injection system at a sniffer test, and not being stock, or having an approved exemption, you will fail.
Now... onto the OP.. She said she has a 94 Grand. The only two engines in the US are the 4.0l or the 5.2l both are multi-port fuel injection. No carb kit...none. She would spend so much money trying to adapt some carb to it that she could put in a new motor and not mess with it.
The 4.2l(258ci) in the Wrangler was a carbed motor originally, so of course there are going to be replacement kits. Poor performance and lousy fuel economy are the reason that companies like Howell,Edelbrock and Holley all offer throttle body injection kits for 4.2l(258ci) engines
In a multi-port system the injectors are in the heads or the block. For the 4.0l and 5.2l they both have injectors in the head. So unless you can find a head that doesn't have injector holes you would have that issue to deal with.
The kit you are referring to ONLY works on the Wrangler up to 90. Which would be the 4.2 engine. In 1991, Wranglers received the 4.0l for the first time as the Chrysler redesign took effect.
The Cherokee(and the Grand) did not receive the 4.2l(258ci). The early model Cherokees received either the AMC 2.5l or the GM 2.8l Both of those engines were carb equipped in 1984. The AMC 2.5l went to throttle body injection starting in 1985, while the GM 2.8l remained carb equipped until discontinued with the 1986 models. The 4.0l debuted in 1987 and was multi-port injection its entire life. With the 1991 Chrysler design take over, the Wrangler finally received the more powerful(and better fuel economy) 4.0l multi-port injection engines.
On the issue of emissions... States generally have one of two methodology of testing. First and most basic is visual. If something is different than stock AND it doesn't have an approved exemption... you fail. The other is sniffer testing. This measures the exhaust gases for a few elements. Each vehicle and model year will have a certain set of measures it has to achieve or you fail. There is no carb ever made that will be able to outperform a properly operating multi-port injection system at a sniffer test, and not being stock, or having an approved exemption, you will fail.
Now... onto the OP.. She said she has a 94 Grand. The only two engines in the US are the 4.0l or the 5.2l both are multi-port fuel injection. No carb kit...none. She would spend so much money trying to adapt some carb to it that she could put in a new motor and not mess with it.
The 4.2l(258ci) in the Wrangler was a carbed motor originally, so of course there are going to be replacement kits. Poor performance and lousy fuel economy are the reason that companies like Howell,Edelbrock and Holley all offer throttle body injection kits for 4.2l(258ci) engines
Regarding the op, yes you were right it would take some doing to convert.
Regarding hard starts, my wrangler starts better than my xj with fuel injection... I guess I need to clean the injectors on the xj.... fuel mileage in my opinion is a horse apiece. Never noticed either way one better than the other..
Also, personally I would rather have less computer control garbage on my vehicle. Give me a card throttle cable brake pedal not brake switch. To much electronic stuff to go wrong thus my having a carb on my yj.
Peace out...
So sorry to the op! Please forgive me for getting involved.
Last edited by dBusteR; 03-18-2013 at 11:00 PM.
03-18-2013, 11:20 PM
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Year: 1995
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 with all of the noise and clatter
Yeah, those darned ol' reliable electronics and computer controls that help keep the air we breath clean and improve performance.
Last edited by Bustedback; 03-19-2013 at 08:14 AM.
03-19-2013, 01:23 AM
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Year: 1997
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: V6 4.0 LITER
some help
did the two of you ever think that country girl might not even be interested in changing her system? i think she was looking for help. not wanting to read an argument on line. crank sensors (cps) will continue to work when going bad until they finally give out. the motor will start and stall. or, it will stall several times during your commute. until the final stall. then it will not crank anymore. this is from my own learning experience with my 97 gc 4.0L. she needs to check her crank sensor to make sure it works. i don't know for sure about your year jeep, but, you might have a cam position sensor ( also called pick up coil or relay). if it's bad, you will not have any spark to fire that motor up. see if you have an IAC (idle air control valve) sensor on your jeep. when mine went bad on my 97, it would let the motor start and then die shortly after. it got to where it would let the motor fire up and then immediately stall. then, i would have a no start situation for about 24 hours. then, turn the key and the vehicle would do nothing. you obviously had spark and fuel or your motor would not have fired up. therefore, the logical conclusion would be that a sensor is the likely culprit. i'm sure daddy has checked the fuses and relays. focus on the sensors. unlike the two professors earlier with their debate, that throttle body is "controlled by sensors". air is necessary to mix with your fuel for combustion. if the sensors don't allow that air to flow into the intake manifold (IAC sensor) , your motor will stall due to lack of oxygen. gas cannot ignite without oxygen. wouldn't hurt to check the basics out either , since it sounds like this jeep has been sitting for a while. coil, plugs, plug wires, distributor cap (if you have one) , rotor, O2 sensor, etc. holler back with your results and perhaps a more civilized type-r-sation.
03-19-2013, 06:18 AM
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Vadergator is right. OP doesn't need the healthy discussion off topic...
One of those sensors and like it was said the crank position sensor would be a good start. Hmm does her 94 have a throttle position sensor? That might be a culprit combined with the crank sensor...
One of those sensors and like it was said the crank position sensor would be a good start. Hmm does her 94 have a throttle position sensor? That might be a culprit combined with the crank sensor...
03-19-2013, 08:17 AM
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Year: 1995
Model: Grand Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 with all of the noise and clatter
Check the fuel pressure and check for spark. You can do both checks at the same time by spraying some ether (starting fluid) into the throttle body. If the engine starts, you have a fuel issue. I the engine does nothing you have a spark issue. Let us know what happens after this check.
03-19-2013, 01:33 PM
#14
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Engine: 4.0
Arguments about someone elses stuff are always fun... dBusteR... SHHHH! Just be quiet for 2 minutes and you might learn something. The first link that you posted is DEAD WRONG. The cherokees never came with a 4.2! Don't believe everything that you read on the internet, bud.
03-19-2013, 02:20 PM
#15
Old fart with a wrench
I also wanted to mention, on the 4.0 the injectors are in the intake manifold, not the head.
I believe her original question was about the IAC or the TPS. Either one could be causing her problem. I'm not up on the OBDI systems enough to know what she's got on her throttle body. Is it port injected or throttle body injected? I also believe the PCM controls the metering of the fuel with inputs from the TPS and the CPS. The ASD relay is there to totally shut down the system if any part of the system goes totally out of limits.
Remote diagnosis is like throwing stones at a jetliner. You have to go step by step. I would start with a pressure guage on the fuel rail.
1-check initial pressure
2-check pressure while running.
3-does it cut off abruptly causing the stall? It should hold pressure for a while after the stall if the fuel system is okay.
I believe her original question was about the IAC or the TPS. Either one could be causing her problem. I'm not up on the OBDI systems enough to know what she's got on her throttle body. Is it port injected or throttle body injected? I also believe the PCM controls the metering of the fuel with inputs from the TPS and the CPS. The ASD relay is there to totally shut down the system if any part of the system goes totally out of limits.
Remote diagnosis is like throwing stones at a jetliner. You have to go step by step. I would start with a pressure guage on the fuel rail.
1-check initial pressure
2-check pressure while running.
3-does it cut off abruptly causing the stall? It should hold pressure for a while after the stall if the fuel system is okay.