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My Jeep :)

Old 06-14-2017, 04:20 PM
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I finally have time to work on my Jeep. I'm renovating the old house I'm living in so unfortunately I don't have a lot of free time. Actually I have zero free time.

But I've schedule another trip to Colorado for July 4th weekend and as satan as my witness I will have this Jeep road worthy by then!!!

Originally Posted by GreaseMonkey17 View Post
Did you replace the thermostat when you did the radiator and fan clutch? Highly doubt it's the water pump. If the coolant is bubbling like you showed and the tester is as yellow as it looks in the picture you may very well have a blown head gasket or cracked head .
I did the test again after draining half a gallon of coolant/water and it successfully tested negative for combustion gases in the coolant. Yes!

Yeah I'm starting to think more and more that the water pump is fine and that it's the lower radiator hose. When I was draining the coolant two days ago out of the lower rad hose, it did seem very old and possibly kinked at a bend. It's a fairly long hose for a lower radiator hose.

Still going to replace the water pump as it's fairly old though. Replaces the hoses too of course. Also looking into possibly using a higher pressure radiator cap to stop it from boiling over if it does get too hot again.
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Old 06-15-2017, 04:54 PM
  #62  
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Yesterday I drained the stuff out of the cooling system after driving around for two days with the Blue Devil additive in the water to help it clean everything out.

It was pretty dark, dirty and nasty. That should be about 30% old coolant (hor however much remains in the block after draining the radiator), 65% distilled water, and 5% blue devil flush additive.



This is what inside the head's coolant passage looks like with the thermostate removed. What the hell is in there??



I removed the old water pump and inspected the blades and they were perfectly fine. I'm 99% sure there was nothing wrong with the old water pump now, but I had to be sure.

Next, I smoothed out the inside of the thermostat housing to help flow. The inner angle of the right angle bend was particularly sharp before applying the dremel to it.



I did a little science experiment to see which thermostat I wanted to use. I had a 195*f one from Oreillys, another 195*f one from Autozone, and 180*f Stant Superstat from amazon.

I bought the 180 superstat thinking the extra 15* would give me a heads up that the coolant temp is creeping up again. I know that it wouldn't help the cooling system shed heat any better. But after reading that the engine needs to run at the temp it's designed to (the motor oil performs better at that temp, the computer and O2 sensor like it better too, and it gets better gas millage) I thought I would return it or put it on the shelf somewhere..



Turns out that the two cheap 195*f thermostats opened up well before the 180*f superstat! So that's what I chose to use. Maybe I'll buy a proper 195*f superstat later down the road... In the above pic you can see that all three were open at 185*f. IIRC the two cheap ones opened up well before then, around 170*f.

Although the old water pump was fine, I put in the new one just because why not, it's not that expensive and I already had purchased it.



Now I just have to put everything back together
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Old 06-16-2017, 11:36 AM
  #63  
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The mix of what I estimate to be 30% old coolant (or however much remains in the block after draining the radiator), 65% distilled water, and 5% blue devil flush additive after letting the flush additive do it's job for two days of normal city driving:



Is it possible that it was just super dirty in there and the coolant just couldn't shed the heat of highway speed driving? This is the 2nd time I've flushed using an additive.

This is the new lower radiator hose:



The parts store had a LHD and a RHD hose (for LHD or RHD radiator?) and I simply brought in the old one to compare and get the same one. I got the LHD one. Actually they didn't have the RHD one in stock so I couldn't compare it to that one or see what that one even looks like

But after installing it, one of the bends is half-way kinked by default!



Do you think I could have the wrong radiator hose? I'm trying to remember if I got the RHD or LHD radiator... either way after getting the new radiator the old hoses fit it fine (or so I thought) but the oil cooler line fittings where on the opposite side than the old radiator.

It's a Left Hand Drive jeep and I guess the difference is where the gearbox is located, but I think what I might do is find a RHD radiator hose and see if it fits better...

oh and one more thing, neither my old hose or the new hose had a spring inside it. Do I need the spring you think? Is there a universal hose spring I could use maybe??

[UPDATE: Amazon reviews http://amzn.to/2s981b3 say the hose comes a little too long from the factory and that it needs an inch chopped off. This will probably be all thats needed to remove the half-way-kinked bend I hope!]
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Old 06-19-2017, 12:12 PM
  #64  
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All I had to do for the lower radiator hose was trim off about 3/4" off the end that goes to the water pump. Fits much better and there's now no more half-way-kink in the bend.

I finished the water pump install too.

Just got got back from a test drive. It's been greatly improved! But it's not perfect. It didn't boil over but the temp started to creep up VERY slowest after about 25 minutes of 75mph driving. Last time, when it overheated, it was after only 5 minutes of 65mph driving! AND its way hotter today then it was then, temp was just about 90 today. AND I didn't have the Water Wetter in the coolant like I did before. Right now I have 25/75 antifreeze/water (distilled).

i drove around different highways for about an hour experimenting with different driving speeds and using the heater core to controls temps further. I found that it was fine at 65 but not at 75mph!

So, much better, but like I said the temp did start to slowly creep up and that's not good enough when I have to drive 9 hours through hot-as-hell western Kansas. My plan is to get it perfect, and then add the Water Wetter which will insure that it can handle going up a mountain at high elevations when the water boils over easier. Actually, I'm told that the Water Wetter just allows you to run with more water which cools better than antifreeze, it raises the boiling temp.

I think I'll try flushing it some more with some sort of acid or detergent.

and I'm also fairly sure I'm going to put some hood vents in.

after the hour long test drive, I took some under hood temp readings with a temp gun. Here they are:
upper radiator hose: 219
lowwr radiator hose: 169
top of air box: 120
air intake near #2 cylinder: 188
air I take near #5: 215
Inner fender: 142
firewall: 127
what do you guys think?
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:10 AM
  #65  
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Nasty nasty!
That stuff you drained out looks sick.i might need to check this blue devil stuff out since I need to flush mine too.

Do you have the hood insulation? I can't remember for sure but it seems my 98 gets hotter under the hood than my 96 did, and the latter did have the insulation panel there so idk if that helps but I can't see how it would.
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:02 PM
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Ordered some hood vents today. GenRight, not cheap but I couldn't find a better option.

Now I just have to decide where to put them on the hood.....

Originally Posted by RegularGuy View Post
Nasty nasty!
That stuff you drained out looks sick.i might need to check this blue devil stuff out since I need to flush mine too.

Do you have the hood insulation? I can't remember for sure but it seems my 98 gets hotter under the hood than my 96 did, and the latter did have the insulation panel there so idk if that helps but I can't see how it would.
No the hood insulation is not in place.

Wonder if they came with one or not in 97, I doubt the previous owner would have removed it
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Old 06-21-2017, 09:46 AM
  #67  
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Oh yeah and I ripped out the AC compressor from in front of the radiator.
The reason I removed the AC compressor was to free up air flow to the radiator and because the AC was toast anyways. All the gas leaked out.

Now I'm the biggest tree hugger ever and the environment was one of my top concerns when thinking about removing the compressor. I decided to quickly check the pressure in the AC system by quickly letting out a tiny bit through the valve and listening to it. When I did that the tiniest little puff came out and that was it. What would have been even more irresponsible is if I tried to recharge it with new gas and all that would have just leaked out in less than a year (I saw on one of the old service receipts that they recently charged the AC less than a year ago). Thankfully the ozone layer is recovering nicely (not at all related to climate change BTW).

And I attached the transmission oil cooler to the radiator now that the compressor is gone, and positioned to be in front of the belt-driven fan instead of the electric fan which is usually not spinning.
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Old 06-21-2017, 01:22 PM
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Nice. I'm going to try and get a tracking s cooler from the JY Friday, myself. The line already leaks, so I may was well add one when I fix it.

I wonder if taking out the condenser will help with cooling any? Less air resistance.

Any new ideas on where your vents will go? I find it helps to draw a picture or Photoshop things on to get a visual of the potential looks.
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Old 06-22-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RegularGuy View Post
I wonder if taking out the condenser will help with cooling any? Less air resistance.
That's what I figure, too

Originally Posted by RegularGuy View Post
Any new ideas on where your vents will go? I find it helps to draw a picture or Photoshop things on to get a visual of the potential looks.
Not 100% certian but I think I'm going to mount them towards the front of the hood.

Most people place hood vents towards the rear of the hood where underhood temps are the hottest. Makes sense I guess, until you take into account the aerodynamics of the vehicle at speed.

The idea is that the air pressure is much higher by the cowl area in front of the windshield because air is hitting the windshield and compacting, bouncing around, flowing slower, etc. This can mean that air will flow into hood vents placed at the back of the hood, when traveling fast enough. The problem with that is it doesn't help air flow through the radiator at all.

However, the air traveling over the hood is moving much faster and this creates a low pressure zone, in the same way that air flowing over airplane wings causes a negative pressure that actually lifts the wing. The Jeep Cherokee is no airplane wing, more like a toaster lol, but it's still enough to act as a vacuum to suck air out of the hood vents. Yes you have to be moving fast enough but if crawling I think you'll still get the benefit of air getting pushed out of the vents from the fans, but the benefit might be greater if the vents were towards the back of the hood where most people have them.

This is also why the louvers in the vents are important. They provide the same negative pressure mechanism, but at a smaller scale.

In short: place them at the front of the hood to help with overheating at high speeds (like my problem), and place them at the back to help with overheating at low speeds. Although I believe vents at the front will still help with overheating at low speeds just not as well. However I may just bring a hole saw with me to Colorado in case I'm wrong

The other reason I'm placing them towards the front is I think that rain and snow water dripping through right there won't be as much of a problem (but I'm still thinking about this aspect). They'll be over the battery and AC compressor on the passenger side, and over the air box and ECU on the driver side.

The ECU is a red flag obviously, but I think that could be covered by something rather easily (will have to consider overheating of the ECU though). And dielectric grease would help too.

The air box could also be a potential problem because you wouldn't want to suck in water into the air intake, but I don't think it would ever be a problem. In a heavy downpour and traveling at a slow speed (so that the rain water actually goes into the vents) I guess it's possible for rain water to dribble down the air box and find it's way to the intake hole to but I don't think it would be enough to damage the engine. I've seen youtube videos were people pour a little water through the carb of a chevy 350 or something to clean out the combustion chambers and the engine usually idles extremely rough for a second then is normal again but supposedly cleaner. Of course, sticking a "cold air intake" into a puddle and cranking the motor is a different story (not like that should ever apply to a Jeep but I'm just talking engine theory here).

I don't know but I don't think it would be a problem for water to get onto the serpentine belt either. I'm sure water splashes on them all the time from bellow.

If the vents were placed in the middle of the hood, rain water would get onto both the distributor and the throttle body and I've read reports that it can cause major problems with the sensors namely the TPS (throttle position sensor). Wet distributors are also very bad.

The very back of the hood might be the best option for mitigating rain problems, according to this guy.

Here's some more personal accounts and research hood vent locations, some really good reading too:

Last edited by mannydantyla; 06-22-2017 at 05:37 PM.
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Old 06-23-2017, 12:37 PM
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Some info I've gathered on flushing out rusted, scaley cooling systems

Aside from the weak stuff from the auto parts stores, these are the chemicals people report using:
  • oxalic acid - really good at removing rust. Can be purchased as "wood bleach" for about $10 a little tub from a good hardware store
  • Sulphamic acid - really good at removing lime and hard water scale and old antifreeze crud. Can be found as "tile and grout cleaner"
  • citric acid - this is what Mercadez Benz dealerships use supposedly. Can be purchased from them, or from a good hardware store
  • Motorcraft VC-9. This is reportedly very very good stuff, it's used by Ford dealerships to clean the iron blocks and heads of diesel motors which have a problem with rust clogging the oil coolers somehow... Can be purchased from Ford dealerships for around $30
  • dishwasher detergent - another one that many people swear by. Amway "Legacy of Clean" SA8
  • CLR - most people agree this is too aggressive for aluminum radiators but many people swear by it

I bought a little tub of oxalic acid for around $10 bucks from my local hardware store. Will be putting it into the cooling system very soon, keep it in there for a few days of driving, drain it out and then pull the thermostat out to take a peak and see if it's any cleaner in there.

Hood vents are in the mail, should arrive after the weekend.

Colorado or bust!!

Last edited by mannydantyla; 02-06-2018 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 06-24-2017, 09:07 AM
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actually i've seen a guy flush the coolant system of a 2000 LeSabre with two bottles of CLR before. i cant say how good it was for the engine but he did it.
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Old 06-25-2017, 02:28 AM
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Use Amway "Legacy of Clean" SA8 laundry detergent. Works great.

http://www.amway.com/Shop/Product/Pr...?itemno=107858
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Old 06-26-2017, 10:26 AM
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I used the Oxalic acid



I drained the radiator through the lower hose then reattached it. Mixed the oxalic acid crystals with hot water and poured it into the radiator through the filler neck. The crystals didn't dissolve in the warm water right away though and I had to kinda spoon it all in there.

After driving it around for two days, I drained it and this is what came out:



This time I completely flushed the system and removed the thermostat. The thermostat had a yellowish coating on it. At first I thought the metal was etched by the acid but I could scratch off the coating with a knife.

And this is what the inside of the head's coolant passages looked like after the acid flush:



For comparison, this is what it looked like before the acid flush but after flushing with both Blue Devil and Prestone:



So much better but not squeaky clean.

I'm not sure if I should be concerned about the yellow coating inside there or not, but when I filled the cooling system back up I put another bottle of Blue Devil flush additive in there with distilled water and now I'm driving it around and will flush that all out today or tomorrow.

Last edited by mannydantyla; 06-26-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:35 AM
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I drove for about an hour on the interstate today and the needle never started creeping up at all! Stayed put right at around 200. (I have a 180 thermostat and will put a 195 in there soon).

So.. All fixed!!!
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Old 06-26-2017, 11:52 AM
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Nice job!
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