CheepJeap

Hey guys. Outta curiosity, how many of you guys are running full width axles? Axles are the next upgrade I need to work on but with soo many options, I'm caught up in full width vrs narrow. Obviously with more mud on trails combined with trees up here, narrow seem to be what I'm leaning towards

slk88cherokee

Hey, ive done full width on cherokees and it kicks ***!! But with the laws n stuff its just asking for tickets. Stay narrow for trail use and daily driver. If its a trail only I say full width for stability, no strength is gained by going full width, unless your going to D60 or better. Definitly swap out the rear. Run the D30 front til it breaks then replace it. Just my thoughts on it, but Im pretty sure theres other guys thatll chime in and flame me.

98CherokeeSport

I'm one of the few guys around here runing full widths. Dana 44 front and dana 60 rear. I measure 80 inches wide to the outside of my tires. I fit throu everywhere I have been to. The stability is nice and the look is badass lol but as the person before said, you need to go 60 atleast in the rear and atleast 44 up front. But if you keep it around 80 inches wide you shouldn't get in too much trouble for being wide

TrollHammer

It's all about how you drive and what your preferances are. Weigh out the pros and cons....

Personally, I'm sticking to narrow axles, especially after my last run. Here's my reasoning:

Doesnt' cost anything to stick with the stock axles, and it's cheaper to just replace one than both if you're upgrading the rear (like keeping the d30 and putting an 8.8 in the rear). Some stock axles can do quite a bit on their own, especially later year XJs.

I have been told that the max (tire to tire) outside width has been restricted in washington. I'm going to look it up at some point before I commit my own build, but my cousin remembers it being fairly narrow, like 74". It's much easier to stay legal in a stock width cherokee on and off trail considering this. (Off trail you have to worry about staying inside the fender flairs)

Personally, I feel more nimble being narrow. There's a lot I've done that I couldn't have gotten through very easy if I was wider without enough lift to articulate over the obsticle on the sides. I scape mirrors already on both sides, I can't imagine not having problems if my tires stuck out that far....

Less fab work! if you're going wider than stock you will have to do some fab work. In some cases this can't be helped (fenders), but in other cases you'll have to redo spring perches, control arm mounts, and the like, as well as do all sorts of tuning to your steering and suspension. Sometimes this is fun or was going to be done anyway, but in my case I have a tendancy of not completing projects if I make them too drawn out, so minimizing fab work is a consideration for me.

For me, if I'm going to all the trouble to put custom axles in, maybe I want to do something completely custom, since I'm already messing with suspension mounts, lift, and other factors. Unless I'm handed a pair of D44s (which is what I'd be happy with and will probibly never happen), I'd rather build a full out buggie with full width axles than to go to all the same work with my perfectly good XJ. Of couse, like I said, that's personal preferance and I'm not doing what everyone else does.

Again, it's all down to what you want. Other things to keep in mind that are good or bad depending on what you want, what you have availiable, and how much you want to spend: How high are you (how much stabilbity do you need?) Will you have to replace your rims (lug pattern)? Is it a performance upgrade (disk brakes/strenght for what you are doing)? Will it get done? Will you be happy with it? Will it get the job done in the end? Is the gearing matched between the axles?

Answering these questions for myself...
*Hight to width: I'm staying low, so narrow is ok.
*Lug pattern: if i change one i have to change both, but then I can find rims easier. more cost in axles, but cheaper rims.
*Performance: for now its not an upgrade, but may be down the road. currently the 8.8 gives me the best boost in ability, and its narrower!
*Will it get done: ummm......
*Happy? Im happier with stock width
*Can I get there? Im better for what i do with short axles.
*Gearing? Stock Im matched, but I may need to regear anyway. 8.8 has 4.11, which I'd have to regear for, but then if I'm ok with 4.11 I only have to buy 1 gear set for the front!

CheepJeap

Good advice all the way around. I think I'm on the same side of the fence as you troll. I have been on craigslist inherrantly looking for 8.8's. The only part that really keeps me thinkin is the 30. Mainly the auto hubs situation. Lookin at locking hubs, I have notices it's limited in choices and expensive. And after looking around, it appears I can do a 44 up front, but does that require narrowing? If it does then I have no problem doing the hubs, narrowing an axle is beyond my ability for sure. I just hate to spend the amount of money on locking hubs for the same price as a beafier axle with man hubs stock. Another quick question, I know Washington like everywhere has lift laws and whatnots. Does anybody know a specific site that will explain the laws as far as lifts, fender coverage, and width items? I think that's good stuff to be able to read and get the knoledge first hand rather them hearsay from buddies. Thanks guys

TrollHammer

Just a quick note. If you are willing to pay for a little bit of stuff, heres a couple options and stuff I've pickrd up on:

There are a few options for D44 fronts in cherokee width, but they are fairly rare. Im not sure, but one may have been the smaller bronco. I cant even find a D44 rear, so I've not worried about it yet.

The D30 isn't a bad axle, depending on how you wheel. There's things you can do to beef it up, from cheaper chrome moly shafts clear up to the more expensive ($1050 a kit) 30 spline shafts. For a bit more strenght than what you have, if you can find a later model front axle (like 99-01) they have 29 spline shafts, but a low pinion instead of a high pinion, so your driveline is at a steeper angle when you lift, which can be bad. Still, it's a direct bolt up for any XJ.

If you want my 2 cents, though, what I would do if I had some money to plan for this, is to grab a chrome moly passenger side inner shaft that will fit your u-joints and run the origional split shaft (I'm assuming you're meaning that you have "vacume disconnects", something in the 87-89 era) til it breaks. Replace it when it breaks.

Unless you're talking about some different type of auto hubs, the vacume disconnect system isn't the crazy thing you might think it is. There is no disconnect for the drivers side shaft, only the passenger side. They took the solid shaft, cut it in half, and put a splined sleeve across the two halves. What ususally breaks is when the sleeve doesn't completely enguage both halves of the shaft and torque is applied, it's too weak and strips it out.

Otherwise the axle is like any other XJ axle, with the actual hub being solid to the shaft. There are variances in the U joint size over the years I can't remember all that info, but I don't see why a solid passenger side inner couldn't replace the halfshafts if the ujoint is the same size and type.

As far as putting hub locks in, personally I wouldn't really bother unless I want an easy way to do 2 low or I have had a bad experience with a broken axle on the trail (which I've not, so I'm speaking from ignorance there). Both of my running XJs have solid hubs and I've not had a reason to wish I could disco. That said, if you still wish to do unlocking hubs, you only have to change the outer shaft on both sides to be able to install hub locks. There's not any real reason to need to change the inners just for hub locks. As far as how far you want to go with it, alloy or whatever, that's entirely up to you and what you have in your budget.

Oh, and in case you're wondering, the reason I suggest only carrying a passenger side in chrome moly is that, since it's longer, historically it breaks easier. I've seen the drivers' side snap too, of course, and just about anything can break overall on the vehicle, but the vacume disco shaft leaves me a little more uneasy than the rest of the axle, so that's why I'd go ahead and figure on it breaking ahead of time and get the spare. Otherwise I'm just going to wait until something breaks before I get a spare until I break something 2-3 times, then I'll upgrade or carry replacements depending on what my gut tells me.

One thing I forgot to mention before... If you've got a Chrysler 8.25 (unlikely if you've got auto disco) rear axle, it's pretty stout as it is. A lot of people give it crap, but in the 29 spline version it's directly comparible to the D44 in strenght. Both of mine have it and I'm happy with it. D44s go for a premium around here when you can find one, and not worth the fab work IMO. The only thing I'd upgrade with is an 8.8 in this case. A D35.... well, it doesn't have the best track record, and most would consider it haveing the worst. It can be built up, but I don't see it being worth it, especially if you can find ANYTHING better. Stock cherokee upgrades are the D44 (ultra rare), Chrysler 8.25 27 spline (very plentiful), and Chrysler 8.25 29 spline (99-01). Also keep in mind that some Wrangler parts are interchangable, and most wagoneer and comanchee parts are interchangable as well, widening your availiblity but a small amount.

One other option if you're up to fab work: if you can find a strong axle (careful here, even D44 was weak aluminium here in some cases) and want coil rear, the Grand Cherokee can be a source as well. In my experience, generally there's not many around with stronger axles than the XJ from the '90s, but it's possible and would be the same width.

Other than that, you're talking full width front and rear, or shortening a full width to XJ width, something I'd not look forward to but can be done.

TrollHammer

Sorry for the second post, but I finally found some of the stuff I looked up last year, as well as some new info.
I'm going to digest the info in the forum thread here:

http://nissan4wheelers.com/eve/forum...1546019403/p/1

and elsewhere into a cleaner format. THe thread has a lot on the widths.

As far as identification, this next link is helpful, but it seems to have skipped the Chrysler Corperate 8.25, which can be identified as such by a rounded cover and a flat spot on the bottom of the diff, if I remember right. Biggest clue for me is the Chrysler emblem cast into the housing.

http://coloradok5.com/axleguide.shtml

Like I said, I'll put up the list of compiled info when I can sort through it and put it in a spreadsheet (probibly next week sometime, won't have a computer).

98CherokeeSport

here is mine on full width ford axles. dana 60 rear (uncut) and dana 44 front (cut to match rear)

98CherokeeSport

measures 80" outside of tire to outside of tire. fits through everything. there are way more rigs out there way wider than this and they can go everywhere too

billulsund

80" is a good number to stay under. At the last Forest Service meeting that was the number they were throwing around when talking about setting a width restriction for Evans Creek and enforcing it.

And, just to throw in my $.02 on rear axles, if you have some patience look for an XJ D44. They were only on some Xjs from 87-89, but if you can find one it is the strongest straight bolt in axle you can get. After months of patiently searching I was able to find one for $300. My friend has an 8.25 and when we compared our spare shafts and I was surprised at how much thicker the D44 shafts were. Both looked much thicker than a D35 shaft. I saw an XJ D44 go the other day on craigslist for $250, but it sold in just a couple hours.