investinwaffles

So i am an idiot. I was changing my distributor cap + rotor and broke a screw. I tried to get the old one to back out but was unable.
I removed the distributor without thinking too much about procedure, only noting which direction the rotor was turning.

So I went and grabbed a new distributor at the parts store. Installed it and aligned the rotor in the same orientation as the old one. Never turned the motor.

Jeep is running really rough now, I obviously screwed up the timing somehow. What is the fastest way I can remedy this? I am not that great with distributer ignitions systems and am trying to figure out setting the timing on this thing

Watching this right now;

investinwaffles

investinwaffles

Ok, this is the procedure for setting distributor timing on a 96-99 XJ
The FSM was kind of difficult for me to understand, I had to read it like 5 times before everything started making sense.

Here it is in plain english;

#1 - Set the engine to Top Dead Center. Bump the Starter until the you feel that the #1 cylinder is coming towards TDC and rotate the crank by hand until the cylinder stops. You can use a paper towel to see when the #1 cylinder is getting compression and turn it by hand until you hit TDC. I used a cheap borescope camera hooked to my phone to get it 100% at top dead center. You can clearly see where the piston stops on the cylinder wall, it goes from shiny to black. I feel like it is pretty important to get the engine to 100% TDC.

#2 - Set the oil pump slot to the 11 o'clock position, looking at the engine lengthwise from the passenger side of the vehicle. Meaning, the screw at 90* from the engine block is 12 o'clock. This was very easy, I made a few attempts so I could get a better feel on where 10, 11, and 12 o'clock are, so I was more comfortable with positioning the oil pump screw. This is not that critical, but it helps you to locate the proper position on the oil pump gear so get it as close as you can.

#3 - Take the Cam Position Sensor (plate thing with wires) off the distributor, and use a screwdriver or something to align the hole in the cam position wheel and distributor housing. Use the hole furthest to the left on the cam position wheel. This is what sets the timing as far as I can tell.

#4 - The bottom mounting ears on the distributor need to be at the 1 o'clock position when inserting the distributor. Install the distributor (+ new gasket), allowing the gears to mesh. I prelubed the gasket and distributor gear with some HyperLube assembly lube for no reason. The whole assembly will drop in place, and rotate to align with the mounting bolt hole. Rock the mounting ears back and forth and install, but do not fully tighten, the distributor mounting bolt (add anti-seize)

#5 - The distributor rotor should be pointing to the 5 o'clock position once installed. Apparently this indicates that the timing is set correctly.

#6 - Install rotor, cap, and wires. Use anti-seize on the cap screws, and a thin coating of dielectric grease on the contacts and boots.

#7 - With the distributor mounting bolt ever so slightly loose, and ignition coil unplugged from the distributor, crank the motor over a few times to make sure the distributor meshes correctly and your motor turns smoothly. Tighten the distributor mounting bolt to whatever spec (hand tight with a 1/2" wrench is what I went with). I assume this helps the distributor gear fully seat and mesh with the oil pump gear before tightening everything down. I just kept the bolt loose enough to allow the smallest amount of up/down play with the distributor, and cranked it twice for 3 seconds.

Summary;
Set #1 cyl to TDC. Set oil pump slot pointing to 11 o'clock. Align the hole in the distributor wheel to the distributor, and install ensuring that the rotor will point to 5 o' clock. This indicates timing is set correctly.


Fired up on the first attempt. Sounds just like it did this morning, and I don't really know how to verify timing so I'll call it good for now.
Hopefully the "Duracrap Gold" distributor I threw in lasts a good while though I will definitely use that lifetime warranty I am sure.
Not that hard once I have done it once, just freaked me out because what was supposed to be an easy late Sunday afternoon task turned into a bit of a time waster. At least I can get to work in the morning...

outersketcher

Hey man.. I'm glad you resolved it. I used that guys same video just recently. Really helped me out as well.

OldTires

Good going. Did you remember to put on the gasket in between the distributor and block? I forgot and had to do it all over again.

I also cheated by noting the position of the of the slot when I took off the distributor. Since the slot gear rotates some when you insert and take off the distributor, I just inserted and removed the new distributor until the gear was back in the position when I first took it out. I too had trouble understanding the FSM at first.

investinwaffles

I did remember the gasket - always hate getting things perfect only to realize I forgot a step along the way.

I tried the "keep everything identical" method, and had bad timing issues. No clue what I did wrong (other than attempting to change the distributor cap in the first place)

Unfortunately I am still having an issue, a P1391 code that shows up after driving it for a while indicating I still don't have the timing 100% correct. \
A P0320 code showed up briefly, but I cleared both and the P1391 code came back.
Ironically I never got a code while the timing was severely messed up.
I am not sure if I should attempt to remedy that tonight or wait until the weekend. The motor feels totally normal though....

investinwaffles

Ok, I am going to try and get the timing sorted out tonight, I don't think I will have time any other night this week...
And I never changed the oil on sunday so I guess I will use that as a test run if this goes well, if not I will be glad I didn't waste any time, LOL


Simple question,
When lining up the distributor mounting ears and bolt hole when installing the distributor, what if it is off by a few millimeters? does that mean I skipped a gear and the timing is off?
Apparently you are supposed to lock the distributor in place with a pin or screwdriver, install it and allow the gears to mesh, and the bolt hole automagically lines up Instructions said not to remove the alignment pin until you bolt it down.
Mine was off by a small amount, maybe 1-2mm, I had to remove the dowel to get it to drop in place.

Coolant temps are normal, engine feels totally normal though. What are the chances this is the new cam position sensor that came with the distributor? I am going to try swapping out and see, I was fairly careful to get it to TDC on cyl #1 and I assume it would be all messed up if it was actually #6 that was under compression

dzywicki

In my experience, the positioning of the distributor was very picky. I was having the same problem as you. You definitely need to make sure the distributor is locked in position. I used a small screwdriver through the holes. I thought I had it one time, but I was getting this weird bucking, pinging once the engine warmed up. Turns out I was off by just a a little bit. I redid it and tried to get as close as possible with the timing mark. Turns out I was looking at an angle and was off by about a degree. I lined it up straight on and fiddled with the oil pump slot until the distributor dropped in and lined up perfectly as it wound down. OnceI got it, everything was good to go. I swapped my cam position sensor out for the MOPAR one. I definitely don't trust the after market ones and definitely didn't trust the one that came with the distributor.
From your writeup, it sounds like you may be a little bit off. fiddle with the oil pump slot until the distributor slides in smoothly as it's turning. I found I had to move a little from the 11 o'clock position.

investinwaffles

Ok, all back together.
I must have had the timing mark off or something when I installed the distributor, I got it buttoned up after midnight and only ran it for 5 mins in the driveway, but I did not get any codes on my 45 minute drive in to work so I think that is a good sign.

I was lazy last time so I removed the electric fan this time, and I used a flat head screwdriver to help index the crank and harmonic balancer because the angle makes it difficult to see.

investinwaffles

Well, unfortunately the P1391 code came back on my way home. Should have waited until the 2nd test drive till I called it fixed

Honestly, I can't get this distributor to line up properly with the mounting bolt hole. I checked with the stock one, and it lines up 99% perfectly when meshing the gears, this one is off by 2-3mm it seems and I do need to turn the distributor housing to get it to line up. (just beyond the play that an allen key through the alignment holes would allow)

I think I am going to get a factory one from the Junkyard. Not really sure what else to do...

OldTires

What a pain. Sorry. At least it runs good. And getting the junkyard distributor is a cheap way that allows you to test the difference between the new, aftermarket part and the OE. Good luck.

craiso

I know your pain sir. I recently went through an a**-kicking distributor replacement. I took the valve cover off to get a better look at what was happening in reference to getting the TDC correct. The first couple of times I tried to line things up I was using the mark at the bottom of the scale. After I cleaned up the scale better, I found that it was actually the next mark up that was the "0". Once I could see that both valves on the #1 cylinder were closed and I could see the top of the piston through the spark plug hole, I knew I was getting close. Then I aligned the oil pump slot to eleven o'clock and kept inserting the distributor into the engine until it finally seated fully and the rotor was pointing just past the #1 on the cap (about the five o'clock position). I never did check the "hole alignment" because it lined up close to the instructions that Cruiser54 sent me. I took a chance and slapped it back together and it worked. My Jeep is a '96 without the OBDII (plug is there, but it does nothing), so I have not bothered to see if there are any residual codes from the fix. It runs as it did before, not great because it desperately needs a tune up, but I am satisfied with it for now. I hope you can get it all sorted out, you know it works, just need to get it right. Keep working it.

investinwaffles

I checked for TDC twice when I had it apart last and the mark on the harmonic balancer was exactly lined up with the 0* mark on the balancer. Then I used a flat blade screwdriver to make sure the mark was as close to centered with the grove as I could get it. I removed my e-fan so I could get a really good look.
I guess I can try and pull the valve cover this weekend to try and make sure it is 100% at TDC with both valves closed

Using the instructions in THIS THREAD a la Cruiser, I can not get an allen key through the alignment holes in the distributor when the mounting bolt hole lines up. I reinstalled the stock distributor with the alignment pin and the mounting bolt hole lined up perfectly.

I thought about shaving one of the ears on the distributor down (saw it in another thread), or trying to manually set the timing to compensate for the distributor not timing properly, but I just want it to be back to how it was before I ruined my stock distributor housing

EDIT:
And thanks for the suggestions guys. I am not that experienced with distributor based ignition

craiso

Someone please let me know if I am incorrect; I understand that the ECU will automatically control the timing, so manually setting is not needed.

Morat

If you've got a 2000+ with coil packs, maybe (I've never looked at one). I'm pretty sure the earlier ECUs can only control fuel, not spark. I don't see a way that the ECU can physically control the distributor.