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Redline MT-90 vs 10w30/40 for AX15

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Old 05-23-2016, 02:35 AM
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Default Redline MT-90 vs 10w30/40 for AX15

Anyone have some real world advice for me? I need to change my trans fluid again and $60/4 Quarts for Redline MT-90 is feeling a bit steep.

According to Redline, their MT-90 fluid is;

*75W90 GL-4 gear oil (similar to SAE 5W40/10W40 engine oil viscosity)
*Satisifies the gear oil viscosity requirements of 75W, 80W and motor oil viscosities of SAE 40, 10W40, and 15W40
*Recommended for GL-1, GL-3, and GL-4 applications, as well as where most special synchromesh fluids are specified


Obviously MT-90 is the bees knees @ $60 per fluid change, but I can get a 5qt jug of 10w40 conventional for $13, or Synthetic for $6 a quart ($24 for 4 quarts).


I would honestly prefer that the motor oil work as well as the MT90, because I really would like to change trans fluid every 30K miles plus I can get it locally vs having to order it online.
I suppose it wouldn't hurt to try running 10w40, but I figure I would ask around before I kill my working AX-15 (unknown long-term effects).

No real reason I am switching other than the fluid being old. It is kind of hard to get it into 1st gear after it gets hot & I am sitting at a light, but that is similar to all AX15's I have driven.

.

Last edited by investinwaffles; 05-23-2016 at 02:40 AM.
Old 05-23-2016, 11:14 AM
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Are the syncros going to be happy with motor oil? What about some less expensive 75w-90 gear oil?
Old 05-23-2016, 11:33 AM
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Well, as Redline (and AMSOIL) are claiming, the 75w90 gear oil is giong to be almost the same viscosity as a 10w40 oil. For whatever reason (the while GL3/GL4/GL5 sulfur debate), I feel more comfortable going with a good quality 10w40 over Pennzoil Synchromesh or a Gl4 75w90 gear oil (which is what is readily available in auto parts stores).


I forgot to mention that the real reason I need to swap fluid out soon is because I think I have water contamination in my fluids (forded a river that was MUCh deeper than I planned this weekend).
Already changed the diff and T-case fluid. Diffs had water in them, T-case looked OK though. Changing everything just out of precaution.


I thiiiiiiink I am going to change fluids with 10w40 tonight and see how it works. If I order Redline MT-90 by Wednesday it should be here by Saturday, so it gives me a few days to test and see if it feels the same.

In light of that decision, I am giong to go with the cheapest 10w40 oil I can find so if I need to dump it I'm not wasting any money. If it works, great - I can just throw some readily avaliable 10w40 full synthetic in it and call it a day.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Havoline-w...-5-qt/17133861


I really don't mind spending the money on Redline MT-90, but I am so averse to limiting myself to "special order" fluids because getting ahold of them in a pinch is either a pain in the ****, or expensive.

Last edited by investinwaffles; 05-23-2016 at 11:38 AM.
Old 05-23-2016, 11:35 AM
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Here are some actual references from the reasearch I did;

Im fairly sure the Chrysler TSB on fluid for the AX-15 says 10w40 bynthetic, but of course at manual trans temps there's not all that much difference between most 10w30s and 10w40s. I used RP 10w40 for about a year, and it worked well most of the time. On the hottest of summer days, my AX-15 tends to "block" first for a long time while the input shaft spins down (and its not a dragging clutch, it passes the test for that), so at my next drain/refill, I decided to drop in M1 15w50 synthetic. That works the best yet, better even than Redline MT-90. I guess it could possibly make shifting a little sluggish in winter if it ever got colder than the mid 20s here... but it only gets THAT cold once or twice a year.

FWIW, the 10w40 came out looking brand new. I had used Royal Purple 10w40 synthetic, and it came out of the gearbox still purple after about 15,000 miles and over a year, no gritties or shinies in the fluid and a minimum of beard on the magnetic drain plug.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=2507668


I used Mobil 1 synthetic 10/30 and it shifts perfect. Dump that fluid before you do any damage to the synchro's or something.
http://www.wranglerforum.com/f282/ax...elp-93135.html


All of this is good information and Amsoil is a good product if you can get it easily. I figured it'd be time for an update on how the Royal Purple 10W-40 is doing in my transmission. As I said a few months ago my shift's are smoother and Reverse ingages just as easy as It did when I put it into gear. I also had an odd squeek noise (most likely from my slave cylinder) when I pushed the clutch pedal in. It still has not returned and my shifts are still smooth and the rough 1-2 shift seems to be alittle more cushoned now I'm running the RP. Just thought I'd post an update for anyone who is interested.
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/ax-...-70292/index4/


Hi Joe,

I love 5-speeds, but frankly the one used in pre-2000 Cherokees isn't all that great (Aisin AX-15). It is better than the AX-5 and a Pugeot that Jeep used in the 80s, though. My main gripe with it is that they changed the synchros in about 1996 so that it REQUIRES GL-3 oil, just as GL-3 oil was becoming unobtainium. It also needs a 90-wt oil, so you can't use ATF. I tried Redline MT-90 (GL-4, about the safest gear oil I could find) and within a few months started getting blocked shifts to first gear and other synchro quirks. I went to a Chrysler dealer service department and basically said, "Ok, smart guys, what do YOU use in one of these when it comes in for service?" They pulled their supercede list and TSBs and showed me a paper trail where Chrysler engineers recommend 10w40 synthetic engine oil for the AX-15. So I tried that, and darned if it isn't working well again.

That said, its actually a pretty nice-shifting unit, and seems to go a long time without trouble for the average driver. Just not super beefy and I gather it sometimes fails in harder offroading. It has your typical Japanese truck transmission super-noisy reverse gear, also. In 2000, Chrysler switched the Cherokees to the New Venture Gear NV-3550 for the last 2 years of production (and its also used in Wranglers IIRC). MUCH tougher transmission, uses ATF IIRC.

Mine had a clutch/throwout bearing replacement at ~60,000 miles (previous owner) because the rear frost plug was leaking coolant and the transmission had to come out anyway. So as of now my clutch "only" has about 75k miles on it. So far so good. The previous owner had a 93 Cherokee with an AX-15 prior to this one, and its clutch was still going fine when he sold it with around 130k miles.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1734164
Old 05-23-2016, 10:27 PM
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Since I have such a huge audience in this thread (jk), figured I would let you all know that I threw in 3.5 QTs of some Mobile Super 5000 10w40 in just now. Went for a short ride and everything feels normal.

Definitely had a **** ton of water in the trans fluid though, looked like strawberry milkshake.
I am going to try out the 10w40 for a bit and report back. If it seems to work really well, I will switch to some sort of 10w40 synthetic, or maybe try one of the 15w40 HDEO's like Delo or Rotella and see how they fair. Feels bad to dump $60 worth of trans fluid thats only ~20k miles old...

Tomorrow will be it's first test, got about 100 miles to drive

Last edited by investinwaffles; 05-23-2016 at 10:30 PM.
Old 05-23-2016, 10:49 PM
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I changed my fluid with the wrong stuff (Lucas Synthetic gear oil) the first time I did mine. My tranny was having all kinds of problems with the syncros. Luckily mine is a trail rig only and I only drove it a couple of times. I ordered the Redline MT-90 from Summit Racing and my XJ is fine now.
Old 05-24-2016, 12:21 AM
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Originally Posted by JandDGreens
I changed my fluid with the wrong stuff (Lucas Synthetic gear oil) the first time I did mine. My tranny was having all kinds of problems with the syncros. Luckily mine is a trail rig only and I only drove it a couple of times. I ordered the Redline MT-90 from Summit Racing and my XJ is fine now.
Yeah, I was running MT-90 and the trans seemed to like it.
Its just a bit too pricey for me, but I am still 50/50 on picking up another 4 quarts of it and just staying away from the deep stuff.

Gonna see how the 10w40 holds up tomorrow and make a decision. I actually looked on redline's website and there are tons of Redline dealers in Denver. Hopefully someone carries MT-90 (seems like one of their more popular items).
Old 05-24-2016, 05:52 PM
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Quick update;

Drove ~90 miles today and the trans felt exactly the same as it did with the MT-90 in there.

Will report back after a few hundred miles, I have conventional oil in there right now (total cost of the trans fluid change was probably $9) but I do want to swap to Synthetic for reason I cant really identify

The only problem is I have no idea what type of oil would be best for a "transmission", and if any of the additive packages in Delo 400 or Rotella T would be detrimental - I think 15w40 would be perfect and in theory would be a "stronger" oil as far as shearing goes. Anyone want to tell me what motor oil to go with

I went with Mobile Super 5000 because it seemed like a "simple" oil with minor additives in it (I'm afraid of eating the Synchros)
Old 05-24-2016, 09:21 PM
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If you go to the Jeep Dealer, they will put 10w 30 Synthetic Motor Oil in your AX-15 transmission, as it is now the recommended fluid by Chrysler. I just changed mine with Castrol Syntec 10w-30, it does fine, and is readily available off the shelf.
Old 05-24-2016, 09:31 PM
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I would be curious to know if the trannys out there ( transmission mechanics,not the guys that go into girls bathrooms ) think that Rotella would be OK for our manual transmissions.
Old 05-24-2016, 10:52 PM
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I'm running Havoline 40w and Lucas in mine.......more than two years now.
Now pulling a trailer full time.

I'm the goon you -go by the book guys- love to mock.

Same in both my difs too.
Old 05-24-2016, 10:54 PM
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Also-

I'm using a Hurst/Core shifter.

Bet I got the smoothest shifting trans than all yall.

Guaranteed.
Old 05-25-2016, 12:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeep Driver
Also-

I'm using a Hurst/Core shifter.

Bet I got the smoothest shifting trans than all yall.

Guaranteed.
The Core shifter is really nice, might need to pony up some day and get one.

For now I think I might just try rebuilding the stock one (new bushing and clean/grease it up) and see if it helps at all.

I also want to get one of these sweet shift *****, but I am worried that it is going to grill my hand in the summer being metal
http://www.ebay.com/itm/USA-GRENADE-...IAAOSwNSxU5NNb

I feel like 10w30 is going to be too thin in the summer. I feel like i could probably get away with 15w40 but I am not sure if it is worth going that thick. Liking the change, feels literally the same as MT-90 on day 1.

_

Last edited by investinwaffles; 05-25-2016 at 12:18 AM.
Old 05-25-2016, 12:16 AM
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Mobile one high mileage 10w40. The blue label. It is the only oil on the market that will tell you it has 1500ppm zinc ddp. Be cautious of what you read about ZDDP as much of it pertains to it being used as engine oil and not as a gear lube. My info comes from Ed Peters a powertrain engineer at Chysler for 30+ years.
Old 05-25-2016, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by madmanmarty
I would be curious to know if the trannys out there ( transmission mechanics,not the guys that go into girls bathrooms ) think that Rotella would be OK for our manual transmissions.
You know, I didnt even think about it, as I use the Rotella T6 5w40 in my Jeep 4.0, but stuck Castrol 5w30 in my AX-15 (I use Castrol in other things). I dont see why not, it will just be thicker as lower temps. If your transmission ever reaches 300 + degrees (when 40w oil has about the same viscosity as 30w oil at 212*) then you have more issues then just oil. I dont see why you couldn't, but I am not a scientist.


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