mschi772

I'm going to be overhauling my HVAC box for a variety of reasons soon. I'm running into trouble finding a replacement heater core that I feel I can rely on. Originals don't seem to exist at all anymore (wouldn't pay the insane prices they had anyway), and the few common ones like Spectra have such hit-or-miss reviews. Is there a true quality piece available somewhere that I don't know of? Related: has anyone done business with Jeep Air? Their parts listings SUCK, and they have some sketchy reviews, but they also have some good ones, so I'm still curious about them.

tjwalker

I've been wondering the same. The ones in most parts catalog are of questionable quality, but a very reasonable price.

Not sure what quality heater core you would get at the Jeep dealership nowadays, except a very much lighter wallet.

I'll be waiting to see what folks have to say here. With the amount of labor involved with heater core replacement, you want a quality core so you don't end up doing the job over again in a short time.

mschi772

I'm pretty sure even a core purchased from a dealer these days is just a Valeo core from France. If anyone knows anything about them, I'd like to hear it. Also, if there's anywhere to buy them, especially if they're good, without paying a stealership price, that'd be great to know.

Idunno

https://www.autozone.com/cooling-hea...ore/470388_0_0

I'm not currently in the market for a core. The item shown in the above link seems a reasonably cheap price. Anyone familiar with this unit/quality?

I look at the cost of a heater core as a necessary evil even if it's a few bills to obtain. It's not like a routine, easy replacement item so a good quality core that's probably going to outlast me seems the way to go. I'd spend a couple bucks for that peace of mind.

Password12345678

I was looking at this heater core from RockAuto. It's the most expensive one they have at $45 (seems cheap, but cost doesn't always equal quality). I desperately need a new one because constantly winding down the windows so I can look both ways isn't very convenient. Does anyone use this in their Jeep?

DustyWagoneer

There is a pretty good thread over on NAXJA about this very thing with links to copper cores.
Sorry I don't have the link.

Ralph77

I think this is the one that DustyWagoneer is talking about.

https://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1133707

BlackXJay

https://www.carid.com/crown/hvac-hea...77&url=3926837

mschi772

The problem with just shopping around is that you can't trust anything stores show or tell you. Often when a thick copper core is pictured, I'm reading that what is really sold is the same old rebadged Spectra or similar thin aluminum core. I have no beef with aluminum, but the build quality on Spectra et al is spotty, and there are numerous reports that they don't heat nearly as well as stock. I guarantee the Crown core linked above is actually a thin, crappy aluminum core. Crown and Omix both switched away from copper to shipping (probably someone else's) ****ty aluminum cores within the last year or two.

The NAXJA thread settles onto the Vista-Pro heater core which is a thick, copper core. I'm not thrilled about what I saw from the guy who bought one. It may be the best option, but it would be a laughable choice if only someone who actually gave a damn about providing quality products and services existed.

AlamoXJ

Another XJ guy on facebook made a video about the cheap replacement heater cores made out of aluminum. Lasted him 8 months. He recommends this one made out of copper:

http://www.apdty.com/item.wws?mfr=VI...mlUlz37ryH_9x4

Here is his youtube video comparing each:

Password12345678

Do you know if this heater core will work for 97+ Cherokees?

jturbo

AlamoXJ

It should, thats what the guy in the video used on his and I believe its a 97+. I have a 2001 and plan on buying this core.

Password12345678

I don't mean to highjack this thread by any means, but since I'm going to replace the heater core, what else should I replace when I get in there?

Jeepwalker

Hi all.
I happen to have two heater cores down in the basement for my 1987 XJ. An aluminum core I got from Quadratec (Crown Automotive 56000049, $87), and a Copper Vista Pro I bought off ebay: (399245, $69). I learned about the copper core after ordering the Aluminum core. I agree with the comments, there's a ton of B.S. out there when looking at heater cores. Some pages *show* a copper heater core in the picture and you get an aluminum core. Or if they show an aluminum core, often it's still different than shown. There seem to be some real POS out there too. I personally stay away from the cheapies based on past issues ...and things I read about other's experiences with them.

Inspecting the two heater cores carefully I have, they both seem to be well constructed with no obvious defects or short-cuts in workmanship. I've replaced probably 10 heater cores over the years in a variety of vehicles, and typically spring for the OEM core when available (I even paid over $200 for one..one time!), and used to work in an industrial setting that involved a lot of process and manufacturing heating and cooling ....so I believe I have a decent sense of what a good heater core should look like. But let's see how they shake out:

The copper Vista Pro in my possession has 17 rows vs the Crown's 20. The copper Vista's coolant passages are spaced slightly further apart, the fins between the passages are also copper and are soldered to the coolant passages (at least 1/2" in from each side -- but not in the center). In addition, each copper fin is 'feathered' ...meaning they're 'sliced' many times, so as the air passes through the core, there is a LOT of surface area to xfer heat to the cabin. Basically it's similar to what you'd see on an older style car radiator (probably what the core IS).

EVEN though the Vista Pro copper HEX (heat exchanger -- let's be technical here), has fewer number of passages, they are wider (thicker) than the passages of the aluminum heater core (effective water passage length: 40mm vs 26mm = 35% wider). Also, the coolant passages on the Vista copper core are 'Pink'd' (for lack of a better term) ...meaning they zig-zag from bottom to top, rather than just form a smooth straight line passage, as do the aluminum heater core passages. That translates into increased surface area. I Imagine if one could 'stretch' out a single copper coolant vein, it might be 35%-40% longer than it's current length (and the length of the AL HEX passage). That also means increased surface area and coolant capacity. There is also an inspection verification sticker on the Vista Pro copper HEX, but not one on the Crowne Alumiunm heat exchanger. So, the bottom line as I see it is, the copper heater core looks to be built of old-school heft and quality and inspected (tested?) on the assembly line. There is a lot of surface area for the copper HEX to give up it's heat. More than meets the eye perhaps to a casual installer. I mention this b/c some other reviews of the Vista Pro completely omitted these small details which will make a huge difference in the heat transfer process.

The Crown Automotive aluminum heater core fins are more tightly packed together and they are 'compressed' between the cooling passages, so conduction is going to be by 'touching' rather than by also solder (as in the Vista copper core - but remember the Vista fins are only soldered on the eges 1/2" in ..which is still pretty nice). Each aluminum fin on the Crown core is also 'feathered' (or sliced) similar to the Vista HEX to also provide increased heat transfer capability. But the fins of the aluminum core have fewer slices than the copper core ..and remember they aren't as long (35% shorter). But of course, it's aluminum which has more efficient heat transfer capability. Blowing through each HEX there appears to be a bit more air resistance when blowing through the aluminum core than the copper core, probably due to the tighter fin placement. But the difference is not as great as one might initially consider given the wider spacing of the copper core's passages. Still, it 'could' mean increased fan resistance, but that also depends on the fan's strength and how it compare's to the OEM core. If I had my Jeep's original core out, it would be interesting to compare between the 3.

Overall, I wouldn't be afraid to install either of these heater cores as long as the owner replaces the coolant more regularly (especially with the Aluminum HEX), the Crown aluminum core appears to be well made. A big consideration most owners don't factor in when deciding between aluminum and copper is pH tolerance. In Industrial processes, this science is considered much more carefully b/c cooler and heater installations can cost into the hundreds of thousands of dollars, and beyond. In the industrial world, it's a big no-no to install aluminum equipment (say, hot water boilers with AL HEX) in a system containing copper heat exchangers ...and cast iron pumps, etc. The reason is it's just too difficult in the real-world to manage the narrow pH range needed to keep both metals happy. It can be done with careful periodic testing and water treatment to control the pH, but in practice, pH management almost always falls through the cracks and expensive problems usually occur (the aluminum 'rots' out and needs to be replaced after a few yrs).

Here is a excerpt from a water treatment document concerning hot water boilers (I would argue a similar environment): "Aluminum is amphoteric, which means it will "dissolve" in both acidic and basic environments. Aluminum likes to be in more of a neutral environment compared to brass, copper and steel. The ideal pH range for a system that contains Aluminum is 7.0 to 8.5. The current recommended pH for a closed loop system utilizing ferrous components (i.e. primarily steel or cast iron heat exchangers, piping and fittings., pump housings, etc.) is 9.0 to 10.5. The approved corrosion inhibitor is still Molybdate at 100 to 150ppm. Unfortunately, the current Molybdate inhibitor is buffered to a pH of approximately 9.5, which is too high and will cause an increase in the Aluminum corrosion. On the other side of the problem, if we were to reduce the pH in to the 7..0 to 8.5 range, we would see a dramatic increase in the corrosion of any Iron in the system. Any brass, copper or stainless steel would perform without any significant damage at the lower pH."

In short, there are a lot of aluminum heater cores and radiators installed with cast iron engines, but as you can see, the tolerance is much greater with copper than with an aluminum core. The soldering on the heater core is probably even MORE suceptible to damage and corrosion than the aluminum core itself (which means it would probably leak at a joint first). To keep an aluminum heater core sound, one has a VERY narrow pH overlap range of about 8-9 (pH). But of course, nobody tests their Jeeps coolant pH regularly or modifies it's pH ....but as you can see from basic data how important it is to keep an aluminum core HEX sound. At least change the coolant more frequently (b/c the pH changes from heat/sensors/environment conditions, etc). What an owner would NOT want to do is replace the heater core with an aluminum unit WITHOUT replacing the coolant with new (and filtered/water, not tap water). People who have hot water boilers in their homes are familiar with periodically checking the pH and adding a water treatment as needed. Of course, anti-freeze is designed to resist pH change, but it's not forever. But with proper maintenance, there's no reason why an AL HEX (Heater core or Radiator) shouldn't be able to last a long time.

If one installs a copper core, obviously, based on science, it can tolerate a much wider pH range and abuse of environmental conditions.

What am I going to do? I'll take a look at my Jeep's core and compare ...I'll probably go with the copper core b/c in all honesty I don't tend to monitor my vehicle's coolant as closely as I should and therefore the copper core should experience few if no problems down the road.

Pictures:
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/g/picture/12391917