Comparing tires - load range
09-30-2017, 01:57 PM
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Comparing tires - load range
Currently running crappy 235/75/15's.
I'm adding a 3" lift FULL kit - coils, full leafs & shocks.
235's are going to look like, 'um... small.
Whenever I look for something that will be a good fit w/o going nuts, the load range increases to the point of, (I'm assuming), unwanted stiffness.
Is there anyway around this?
I'm adding a 3" lift FULL kit - coils, full leafs & shocks.
235's are going to look like, 'um... small.
Whenever I look for something that will be a good fit w/o going nuts, the load range increases to the point of, (I'm assuming), unwanted stiffness.
Is there anyway around this?
09-30-2017, 02:21 PM
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Currently running crappy 235/75/15's.
I'm adding a 3" lift FULL kit - coils, full leafs & shocks.
235's are going to look like, 'um... small.
Whenever I look for something that will be a good fit w/o going nuts, the load range increases to the point of, (I'm assuming), unwanted stiffness.
Is there anyway around this?
I'm adding a 3" lift FULL kit - coils, full leafs & shocks.
235's are going to look like, 'um... small.
Whenever I look for something that will be a good fit w/o going nuts, the load range increases to the point of, (I'm assuming), unwanted stiffness.
Is there anyway around this?
Then make note of that particular pressure. Watch how they wear center to outside for awhile and adjust accordingly for even wear. This works all the way up to 10 foot tall loader or earth mover tires and you will find that sometimes 12 to just 25 pounds is plenty depending on vehicle weight or unless you are in extreme heat conditions. And they will ride nicer than you think no matter what rated tire you put on it.
Just to give you an idea how this works...Standard starting/load wear testing pressure for 10 foot tall earth mover tires is 25-35 pounds. BUT they are not speed rated like an auto tire. But it works the same depending on materials and construction. Speed rated tires are just built much much better for safety factors.
Last edited by Bugout4x4; 09-30-2017 at 02:29 PM.
09-30-2017, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Bugout4x4;3426624[b
]I own a tire store. The load rating on the tire is MAX. It is OK to run them lower to ride better until you load it quite heavy or pull a heavy trailer with the rears.
I don't think he was talking about the max pressure. He wad talking about the load rating, which is essentially a tires capacity for weight bearing, and their ability to handle higher pressures to handle increased weight. Increased load ratings are stiffer because of an increase in plys, but from one rating To the next you proabably won't notice anything different. To the op, the load ratings on most 31s are the same. And you shouldn't be able to notice a big difference in ride quality compared to 235s. And never set your pressure to the pressure you see on the side of the tire. The ride quality will SUCK.
Here's the way to set your pressure. Inflate to max and then lower them until the very outside of the shoulder lugs have just what you think would be equal load to the rest of the contact patch. Then make note of that particular pressure. Watch how they wear center to outside for awhile and adjust accordingly for even wear. This works all the way up to 10 foot tall loader or earth mover tires and you will find that sometimes 12 to just 25 pounds is plenty depending on vehicle weight or unless you are in extreme heat conditions. And they will ride nicer than you think no matter what rated tire you put on it.
No offense bugout, but this isn't really a very accurate or efficient method to set proper pressure. Take a guess as to if the contact patch is uniform and then wait until you see some messed up wear pattern, and then try and fix your pressure to adjust for uneven wear? Doesn't seem so good. Heres a good "backyard method that can be done in 5 to 10 minutes, and save from waiting for uneven wear:
"You can also “calculate” your tire pressure with the chalk method. This involves coloring a section of your tire with chalk to see how much tread is making contact with the ground. Start by finding a flat road surface. Concrete is actually the best choice, but you can also do this on asphalt. Make a mark with soft chalk that goes all the way across your tread. Then, gradually drive your truck forward about 50 feet and then backwards 50 feet.
Analyze the chalk on the tire. If the chalk is only worn off on the center of the tire, reduce the tire pressure slightly and go through the process again. With the adjustment, you should see the chalk wear off more broadly. Keep making tiny adjustments in the tire pressure until the chalk wears off evenly and all the way across the tread."
that is essentially what you suggested, but with a better and more visual baseline and better results for your tires throughout their lifetime.
Just to give you an idea how this works...Standard starting/load wear testing pressure for 10 foot tall earth mover tires is 25-35 pounds. BUT they are not speed rated like an auto tire. But it works the same depending on materials and construction. Speed rated tires are just built much much better for safety factors.
This is true. Is kind of funny when people bring in their farm and industrial tires for repair, and then ask what pressure we set them too so they know for future reference. They freak out when we tell them 20 to 25 pounds is perfect. Everyone seems to think they require much more.
I don't think he was talking about the max pressure. He wad talking about the load rating, which is essentially a tires capacity for weight bearing, and their ability to handle higher pressures to handle increased weight. Increased load ratings are stiffer because of an increase in plys, but from one rating To the next you proabably won't notice anything different. To the op, the load ratings on most 31s are the same. And you shouldn't be able to notice a big difference in ride quality compared to 235s. And never set your pressure to the pressure you see on the side of the tire. The ride quality will SUCK.
Here's the way to set your pressure. Inflate to max and then lower them until the very outside of the shoulder lugs have just what you think would be equal load to the rest of the contact patch. Then make note of that particular pressure. Watch how they wear center to outside for awhile and adjust accordingly for even wear. This works all the way up to 10 foot tall loader or earth mover tires and you will find that sometimes 12 to just 25 pounds is plenty depending on vehicle weight or unless you are in extreme heat conditions. And they will ride nicer than you think no matter what rated tire you put on it.
No offense bugout, but this isn't really a very accurate or efficient method to set proper pressure. Take a guess as to if the contact patch is uniform and then wait until you see some messed up wear pattern, and then try and fix your pressure to adjust for uneven wear? Doesn't seem so good. Heres a good "backyard method that can be done in 5 to 10 minutes, and save from waiting for uneven wear:
"You can also “calculate” your tire pressure with the chalk method. This involves coloring a section of your tire with chalk to see how much tread is making contact with the ground. Start by finding a flat road surface. Concrete is actually the best choice, but you can also do this on asphalt. Make a mark with soft chalk that goes all the way across your tread. Then, gradually drive your truck forward about 50 feet and then backwards 50 feet.
Analyze the chalk on the tire. If the chalk is only worn off on the center of the tire, reduce the tire pressure slightly and go through the process again. With the adjustment, you should see the chalk wear off more broadly. Keep making tiny adjustments in the tire pressure until the chalk wears off evenly and all the way across the tread."
that is essentially what you suggested, but with a better and more visual baseline and better results for your tires throughout their lifetime.
Just to give you an idea how this works...Standard starting/load wear testing pressure for 10 foot tall earth mover tires is 25-35 pounds. BUT they are not speed rated like an auto tire. But it works the same depending on materials and construction. Speed rated tires are just built much much better for safety factors.
This is true. Is kind of funny when people bring in their farm and industrial tires for repair, and then ask what pressure we set them too so they know for future reference. They freak out when we tell them 20 to 25 pounds is perfect. Everyone seems to think they require much more.
Last edited by Martlor13; 09-30-2017 at 06:19 PM.
09-30-2017, 06:55 PM
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Increased load ratings are stiffer because of an increase in plys, but from one rating To the next you probably won't notice anything different(unless they are super aggressive mud tires) To the op, the load ratings on most 31s are the same. And you shouldn't be able to notice a big difference in ride quality compared to 235s. And never set your pressure to the pressure you see on the side of the tire. The ride quality will SUCK.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Cheech said
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
What Cheech said
09-30-2017, 07:12 PM
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Yeah mud tires are a different story if you're coming from an all terrain. But mud tire to another mud tire you'll be golden hahah!!
10-01-2017, 10:14 AM
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I understood and no offence taken here at all man. The first thing people think is that a heavier ply is going to automatically make it ride rougher when most of this difference can be compensated for by reducing pressure just a bit more. I guess I have been eyeballing these and getting within 2 pounds of almost perfect even wear universally for so long I am probably taking it for granted that anyone can do it this way.
You are absolutely right with your method here, in fact if it is a clean new tire just the dust off the slab will indicate the same factors about if you are indeed getting a full patch or not. But what it won't tell you is how much of the weight has been distributed to the outside from the inside. This is where observation of the sidewall bulge comes into play.
As I'm letting it down and see the shoulder of the tread start to touch I keep an eye on how much the bulge starts to come out. How much of the shoulder ends up touching along with how much the bulge should be has always got me within 2 pounds of good even wear. If there is an uneven wear after this preset, it will be very minute and not aggressive at all. So to see if they still need to be "fine tuned" a couple pounds, they have to have a few miles put on them before you will detect this minute wear difference.
But then of course as you know there are a lot of factors that only show up after they are used for awhile. Casing design, materials, tread design, and even the difference between what percentage of city driving where you do much more turning which wears the outsides more or how what percentage of higher speed freeway driving you do which tends to wear the middle more because of the centrifugal force stretching the center of the casing out just a bit more than the outsides.
There is no exact science that can be applied universally because every tire is different and every application is different. But seriously I have been able to get within 2 pounds of where they should be by eyeball for many many years now. But you are right, not everyone has this ability and I should not have expected it.
It appears you are into tires also and I have a curious question. Do you have any Tow Grader tire customers that cheap out and only buy Bias tires? If so are you getting tired of them blaming the tires for uneven wear when it is actually the operators trying to bite off more with the blade than the tires can push even at the proper pressure? lol
I keep telling them that if they pay the extra for radials, most of this problem will stop and one set will outlast two sets of Bias tires. But they just don't get it...
You are absolutely right with your method here, in fact if it is a clean new tire just the dust off the slab will indicate the same factors about if you are indeed getting a full patch or not. But what it won't tell you is how much of the weight has been distributed to the outside from the inside. This is where observation of the sidewall bulge comes into play.
As I'm letting it down and see the shoulder of the tread start to touch I keep an eye on how much the bulge starts to come out. How much of the shoulder ends up touching along with how much the bulge should be has always got me within 2 pounds of good even wear. If there is an uneven wear after this preset, it will be very minute and not aggressive at all. So to see if they still need to be "fine tuned" a couple pounds, they have to have a few miles put on them before you will detect this minute wear difference.
But then of course as you know there are a lot of factors that only show up after they are used for awhile. Casing design, materials, tread design, and even the difference between what percentage of city driving where you do much more turning which wears the outsides more or how what percentage of higher speed freeway driving you do which tends to wear the middle more because of the centrifugal force stretching the center of the casing out just a bit more than the outsides.
There is no exact science that can be applied universally because every tire is different and every application is different. But seriously I have been able to get within 2 pounds of where they should be by eyeball for many many years now. But you are right, not everyone has this ability and I should not have expected it.
It appears you are into tires also and I have a curious question. Do you have any Tow Grader tire customers that cheap out and only buy Bias tires? If so are you getting tired of them blaming the tires for uneven wear when it is actually the operators trying to bite off more with the blade than the tires can push even at the proper pressure? lol
I keep telling them that if they pay the extra for radials, most of this problem will stop and one set will outlast two sets of Bias tires. But they just don't get it...
10-01-2017, 10:57 AM
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Yeah I've been with a local tire shop for 7 years. Started there part time for 3 years while I was still in school. Never really took a complete interest until like 2 years ago. I knew what I was doing, but couldn't really answer to goes and whys to customers clearly. But I've known the owner my whole life and he trusts me so I was promoted up, and now working with tires is pretty darn cool. Get to try out different tires and me and my coworkers even keep our own reviews chart for tires because the ones online aren't usually too accurate compared to what consumers actually say.
as far as the industrial and farm type customers, we don't really have the problem you described. Most of our industrial equipment customers are contractors and such, and they don't mind paying because they've already established which tire is the best for their application, and realize that gong cheap usually costs them more in the long run haha. Local farmers will go cheap, but the tires work for them just fine.
back on the original subject of load ranges. What are your thoughts on the nitto ridge grappler 12 plys? I'm not one for recommending the "big name" brands because people are paying more for a name when nowadays there are many comparable and even better tires for cheaper. But I recommend the ridge grapplers to the guys that tow and they are getting rave reviews from them. One guy hauls a backhoe on his dually everyday and he goes through tires quick. But the nitto are doing superb as far as wear for him.
as far as the industrial and farm type customers, we don't really have the problem you described. Most of our industrial equipment customers are contractors and such, and they don't mind paying because they've already established which tire is the best for their application, and realize that gong cheap usually costs them more in the long run haha. Local farmers will go cheap, but the tires work for them just fine.
back on the original subject of load ranges. What are your thoughts on the nitto ridge grappler 12 plys? I'm not one for recommending the "big name" brands because people are paying more for a name when nowadays there are many comparable and even better tires for cheaper. But I recommend the ridge grapplers to the guys that tow and they are getting rave reviews from them. One guy hauls a backhoe on his dually everyday and he goes through tires quick. But the nitto are doing superb as far as wear for him.
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10-01-2017, 11:24 AM
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Yeah I've been with a local tire shop for 7 years. Started there part time for 3 years while I was still in school. Never really took a complete interest until like 2 years ago. I knew what I was doing, but couldn't really answer to goes and whys to customers clearly. But I've known the owner my whole life and he trusts me so I was promoted up, and now working with tires is pretty darn cool. Get to try out different tires and me and my coworkers even keep our own reviews chart for tires because the ones online aren't usually too accurate compared to what consumers actually say.
as far as the industrial and farm type customers, we don't really have the problem you described. Most of our industrial equipment customers are contractors and such, and they don't mind paying because they've already established which tire is the best for their application, and realize that gong cheap usually costs them more in the long run haha. Local farmers will go cheap, but the tires work for them just fine.
back on the original subject of load ranges. What are your thoughts on the nitto ridge grappler 12 plys? I'm not one for recommending the "big name" brands because people are paying more for a name when nowadays there are many comparable and even better tires for cheaper. But I recommend the ridge grapplers to the guys that tow and they are getting rave reviews from them. One guy hauls a backhoe on his dually everyday and he goes through tires quick. But the nitto are doing superb as far as wear for him.
as far as the industrial and farm type customers, we don't really have the problem you described. Most of our industrial equipment customers are contractors and such, and they don't mind paying because they've already established which tire is the best for their application, and realize that gong cheap usually costs them more in the long run haha. Local farmers will go cheap, but the tires work for them just fine.
back on the original subject of load ranges. What are your thoughts on the nitto ridge grappler 12 plys? I'm not one for recommending the "big name" brands because people are paying more for a name when nowadays there are many comparable and even better tires for cheaper. But I recommend the ridge grapplers to the guys that tow and they are getting rave reviews from them. One guy hauls a backhoe on his dually everyday and he goes through tires quick. But the nitto are doing superb as far as wear for him.
Their 10 ply highway commercial light truck tires turned out to be the best I have sold yet in all rights. But they are not producing enough or warehousing enough to supply the market, so I have been forced to move my diehard Nitto customers over to Toyo. Nittos are built by Toyo and ARE Toyos. They are the same tire and one can run the DOT number to find they are the same built in the same factories.
If you can still get Nittos that is fantastic! I have many customers who have proven this sub-brand of Toyo to be one of the best through years of experience and now I would back anything they are selling!
P.S. Just went and pulled my catalog up and realized you might be talking about the 37X12.50R 17 ?
Last edited by Bugout4x4; 10-01-2017 at 12:01 PM.
10-01-2017, 10:04 PM
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To the op, the load ratings on most 31s are the same. And you shouldn't be able to notice a big difference in ride quality compared to 235s.
