Jeep Cherokee Forum

Jeep Cherokee Forum (https://www.cherokeeforum.com/)
-   Stock XJ Cherokee Tech. All XJ Non-modified/stock questions go here (https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/)
-   -   97 XJ TPS issue HELLLLP (https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/97-xj-tps-issue-hellllp-110499/)

volaredon 11-04-2011 11:01 PM

Thanks. One of the major issues that I have had is that since C4C has come and gone I am having one he11uva time specifically finding a 97 model in the yards;
I started with a '96 ECM as I saw the 3 plugs on it as opposed to older versions with 1, large plug.... NOT.... it ran it verified my same TPS readings and code outputs, but no gauges.
then, when looking for an underhood harness and being told by a junkyard employee that a harness from a '98 model would interchange after having passed by many 98s in other yards, which I bought, I went to install it and found out that the TCM plug would not plug into the 97 TCM, nor would the solenoid plug into my 97 transmission, besides the 98 having a larger plug, it also had 2 additional wires that the 97 harness does not; and not knowing if I could snip the plug from the 97 harness and solder it to the 98 harness and simply leave 2 wires loose and "tape them off" (I didn't do that)
But with the 98 harness plugged in (total underhood harness) again the Jeep started and ran exactly the same as it had with its original;
I finally found a 97 in a yard with an intact harness and bought that; this off a "SPORT" model with crank windows, no foglights and no overhead console as my "Country" model has. But as with the 98 harness this 97 one plugged in (though I was able to use every plug without wondering if I could modify it) and AGAIN with this harness plugged in Igot all the ecaxt same responses from my Jeep as I did with the original harness which I still have and is all intact.
So with now 2 different underhood harnesses having been swapped in, and still being at Square One, I ahve to expand the search farther. All these excercises have done is to verify that the Original parts are in fact, good.

Early on when I bought the '96 ECM, (and found out that "close was not enough",) I then searched out a proper 97 ECM; that turned out not to be that hard to find, as most yards keep ECMs from vehicles they crush and put them onto the shelf.

the ONLY difference I get with the parts I swapped, although I get the same codes and just as quick and parameters as read thru the Snap on scanner I have being identical no matter which ECM I have in there or which wiring harness, is that with the original ECM it will not idle below 1200, since the problem started. With the replacement junkyard '97 ECM installed it idles at 790-something and smoother. ("target" RPM as the scanner screen calls it) But with either ECM installed to get on the gas at all I get popping and snorting; worse with the original ECM.
I am all for the possibility that a component is shorted and bleeding power to a wire that it should not be;
but being it matters not whether the airbag clockspring is connected or not, nor whether the TPS is connected or not or which TPS I have on there (I have a couple used but known-good spares) or which ECM, OR which wiring harness is on my Jeep; the problem remains the same; telling me that those components can be ruled out as the cause of my issues. I tried a new CPS; no change. I'm leaning towards a MAP because as it seems to be working right, it is "before" the TPS in the line of progression of sensors fed by that same orange 5VREF wire; any that I unhook "after" the TPS have no effect.
When everything having to do with that 5VREF unplugged if I individually plug in either the TPS OR the Crank Sensor OR the MAP I get a 1/4 volt difference in TPS voltage; the temp sensor or the distributor pickup which are wired "after" the TPS do not.

Now that 1/4 volt difference is not "stacked"; meaning it increases 1/4V for each sensor plugged in; if I have everything connected, save for the TPS, I get the same 1/4 volt change (same "before plug in/after plug in") numbers, as I do with everything unhooked and individually plugging in any of those 1st 3 sensors;
the weird thing is that all the difference happens at the TPS signal no matter which sensor I am dealing with. I hope that makes sense. Its late and I am starting to get bleary eyed.

Programbo 11-05-2011 10:52 PM


Originally Posted by volaredon (Post 1302437)
........ is that with the original ECM it will not idle below 1200, since the problem started. With the replacement junkyard '97 ECM installed it idles at 790-something and smoother. ("target" RPM as the scanner screen calls it) But with either ECM installed to get on the gas at all I get popping and snorting; worse with the original ECM..

Interesting...My XJ idles smoothest around 1200 and if it goes down to near 800 it's like my engine is about to stall out and it's dying. I shall ponder all this further.

Cherockee 11-06-2011 06:43 AM


so the black/orange and the orange are supposed to both have juice on them?
I had juice on my grond one as well/ my mind is on knots with this thing.

one thing I am gonna do, is to re install my orig underhood wire harness since the one I found in the JY was a "less loaded" one, and TPS wise all my results are identical to with the orig harness.

I will have both a 97 and a 98 XJ underhood harness for sale and soon.
Have you solved this problem yet? Are you reading a true ground to your TPS? If not then clip a test lead to the ground wire and clip it to the negative battery cable- see how it runs.

Oh, and one other thing, you dont have your ECM touching any metal do ya? Make sure it's not gounding out.

volaredon 11-06-2011 09:45 AM

no the ECM isnt touching metal; it has those nylon inserts in the body where teh bracket screws in to the fenderwell; I was wondering if I should mane me a pigtail from the ECM mount screw to a known good ground (I have not yet)
No I have not had a chance to get back to this hassle, being in school full time and like yesterday having had to replace my storm doors on my house to get ready for winter. Afternoons/evenings after school (I'm full time at the local community college) this week I plan on hitting the Cherokee hard and heavy to see if I can get to the bottom of this issue once and for all.

volaredon 11-06-2011 09:49 AM


Originally Posted by Programbo (Post 1304157)
Interesting...My XJ idles smoothest around 1200 and if it goes down to near 800 it's like my engine is about to stall out and it's dying. I shall ponder all this further.

This one as my 97 TJ does and my o1 XJ before (all 4.0-powered have run well at idle around 750-800, 1200 seems like they are "screaming"
and at 1200 my tranny slams into gear too hard.

Normally I dont get that "its gonna die" feeling unless the idle some how drops below 600-ish; the only one i get that on occasionally is the TJ if I'm in a "lugging" situation (that one is a stick) something that rarely happens to me; more likely when the wife drives it lol)

rjheger 11-06-2011 10:55 AM

Ok what you want to do is order a click shooting replace it and boom ad good as new. Trust me i know it is stupid but it is the problem.i know this because i spend a ton of money trying to fix the same problem. Replaced tps. The whole throttle body. Whole engine wiring harness. Computer. And said screw it i will change the clock spring and boom there it was. There is a 5 volt lead that runs through the clock sorting to tell the comp the voltage it is shorted caused from turning the wheel with the pitman arm undone. This gives the comp a false readings. If you unplug it you just disconnected the feed to the comp all together and that will cause the comp to think there's is just bad not a high voltage. I will put money on this. The gut that will me mine told me it needed replaced and i spend 4 months researching this issue.

rjheger 11-06-2011 10:57 AM

And sorry meant clock spring not click shooting lol this phone sucks

Cherockee 11-06-2011 06:25 PM


Originally Posted by volaredon (Post 1304697)
I was wondering if I should mane me a pigtail from the ECM mount screw to a known good ground (I have not yet)
.

Don't, it's not ment to be grounded and you could damage it if you do. I had read before about someone who was testing a new ECM and had it lying on the radiator support, which was grounding it out- it didn't work very well.

Maybe you should hook up a good clock spring and see if that helps. Can you borrow parts from your TJ to test it?

rjheger 11-07-2011 09:37 AM

I am 100 percent sure it is the clock spring if you use the tj one just be sure it has cruise control if yours does. It is simple mine took like 20 mins with a steering wheel pulled.

jaycbrf4 12-29-2011 01:40 PM

Did you disconnect the clockspring under the dash or at the clockspring itself.

make sure you disconnect the clockspring yellow and white connectors on the steering wheel.

connect tps and try to erase code. This worked for me on my 00 XJ.

volaredon 12-30-2011 07:36 PM

My TJ is a NON cruise model; so the clockspring is a no go.
this Cherokee has been on the back burner>>> has been demoted to garage ornament for a while now, as far as the clockspring; I have disconnected that damn thing at every point along the line at one point or another, mostly at the clockspring itself though. I know how to change them it's not that hard at all; I have had it disconnected thru most of my testing and probing; and STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM! so to me that eliminates it from the list.
I have put 2 different ECMs 2 different wiring harnesses (everything from the firewall forward, anyway) new crank sensor, 2 different known good TPS' and still at square one. I noticed that when I disconnect the clockspring at the harness connector, itll crank but not start. Itll start and run if I unhook it right at the clockspring itself. but I still have the same symptoms. I wish I had a fully functional 97 here I could plug tehse 2 ECMs into and verify that they arent screwed up from how many times they have been taken in and out of this Jeep.
thankfully I have 1 more vehicle here than I do drivers; I am back in school full time, and am looking for work so the jeep has had no choice but to sit; My mind is in such knots from it, I could no longer think straight.
I'm hoping that the time away from it will allow me to look at it fresh;
I have thought about saying "screw-it"; and just buying a clockspring but being that I am still on disability and haven't yet found work (another major personal "sore spot") I can't afford to throw $156 at it for a new clockspring that may not solve anything..... and that's with having a buddy at the dealer parts counter helping me on the price of it.
I have gone ahead and bought the "driveability" part of the factory service manual from Ebay, and according to it, following the flow charts I'm at "REPLACE TPS"; but that dont make sense either, considering the readings I get with it disconnected, AND The connector at the ECM also unhooked; even then I still have voltage on the line that is supposed to be fed from the ECM; common logic tells me with it disco'd. that line voltage should be dead. Since it isnt there's a short somewhere.

I have had the main part of the FSM since before this issue popped up, and didnt realize that the "complete" FSM for this thing actually is 5 seperate books; I now have 3 of them.

I am on winter break from school and am having to do some household repairs; the last week has been drywall dust today I had to replace my hot water heater and replumb my outside faucets. I have 2 weeks to tie up those loose ends and find a job.... I need one for my last semester of school (required for my program for an internship or I DON'T GRADUATE!) so I hope I get some time in these 2 weeks to spend at least 1 good solid day on nothing but the Cherokee, start fresh in poking and probing. I have been away from it long enough that I think my mind has finally been "brainwashed" from my former testing, so I can get that fresh look.

Once I get this figured out I gotta go straight to the body shop so they can re install the windshield and treat the rust in the windshield channel, before there isnt a W/S channel left to save..... another issue I discovered while chasing this electrical issue; besides this rust, the rest of the Jeep is in way too good of shape to give up on. My wife has been "on me hard" to get this Jeep running again, since she misses it so bad.

volaredon 01-05-2012 08:25 PM

FIXED cannot believe what the problem turned out to be
 
FINALLY!! something very simple, a base that I thought I had covered multiple times; I'll post back if anyone is interested as now that I can feel my fingers and toes again I need to finish putting the dash and grille back together; it was NOT the clockspring and I have th e original wiring harness all back in again like it was when I started chasing this mess
LATER!!!

volaredon 01-06-2012 09:49 AM

Well; after all that it was a bad TPS all along
I would have expected a change of SOME KIND (better OR worse just something) with it unplugged; plus I tried a "known good one" that I had here. and same result.
I didnt realize that there were actually 5 books to comprise the whole FSM for that year! I had the big "Main" one thinking that was "it"
I bought 2 more volumes on Egag (the powertrain diagnostic and Body diagnostic ones) and promptly went thru the flow charts in the powertrain version and came up with that conclusion about 6 weeks ago; and it did not go thru even half the checks that I did to get there; having been where I have on this thing, I still figured "no way";

I do have the original-from-factory harness back on my XJ I changed it back, once I had it going with no CEL and running like it should;

Anyone need a firewall forward harness for either an early production 97 or for a 98 XJ?? I have both here collecting dust and both verified good from having been installed on mine; I also have the '98 Tranny control module.
The only difference I know of between the 97 harness I found in the junkyard (97 XJs are harder to find in a junkyard than needles in a haystack, can find every other year but this one) is that it came from a "SPORT" that did not have the contacts in the fusebox for the factory foglights; the "grooves" for the relay are there but there are no "contacts" to hold it in. IDK if it matters but the JY "SPORT" the harness came from did have a 242 T case instead of the 231 mine does; Everything did seem to work fine; Other than the fact that someone cut the plug for the elec radiator fan (PLENTY of wire there to allow a splice!) it is all there and intact.

On the 98 harness; there is 1 plug having to do with the tranny that is larger and has 7 wires going to it where the 97 has 5 wires and I didnt know if I could just clip the plug solder mine on from the 97 and leave 2 wires taped-off and hanging--so I DIDN'T. but it too is good as verified by having put it on my XJ and running it....

they are sitting here collecting dust so if youve had a wreck and damaged yours or maybe a fire, here you go..... I proved beyond a doubt that my original is perfectly fine.

There are 3 sub harnesses that plug into the main one; the one that goes to all the front end lighting the one with the batt cables starter and alternator wires and the one that goes to the engine it-self; I have one each of those as well if thats all you need for yours.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:07 PM.


© 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands