CoffeeCommando

Are you using 6 Cylinder 4 stroke for 3 injector pulses, or the default 3 cylinder 2 stroke with 6 injector pulses? I like the idea of 6 smaller pulses to reduce injector pulse widths but I don't know if that's a safe approach since it's firing twice as much.

CobraMarty

3 cylinder 2 stroke, firing twice as much is not a problem. This gives a more even spray throughout the engine cycle. I would use it the way Marc sent it to you.

CoffeeCommando

SS box and new FI should be installed either today or tomorrow. I'm leaving to go back home next Friday.

CoffeeCommando

Got it back on 7PM the night before I moved back to Florida. Just as they were cranking it up to pull it around to me the NSS started to give problems. It would only start after shifting it into Neutral, or Park Neutral Park.

The first few times I cranked it I had no problems. Now I have to adjust it... but after it starts the idle is unusually low and I can smell something weird. Smells like it might be something that was burning but I don't know what. Looking around I found nothing. If I throttle it it's good and strong but letting it come back down to idle it will stall out.

We ended up putting the original sprintex fuel injector back in because the Deatchworks one didn't seat securely and a little fuel started to come out of the end of it. I had them hook up the old one to the fuel while sitting outside of the SC to ensure that the injector was leaking after priming the fuel system.

I'm definitely swapping out the NSS because of the starting issues and the fact it still kicks into reverse despite a brand new transmission.

Any ideas on the low idle? I'm going to check the fuel pressure tomorrow to ensure it's not leaking after I get a gauge from a parts store.

Also, when I floor it it will drop down to 13-13.5 PSI but then go back up to 14.7 immed.iately after. Cruising up to 2500~ RPM also = 14.7. I'm still busy unpacking since the move but I'm going to hook up the software and find out what's on there.

As of right now there is no methanol injection in the equation.

Edit: Also, whenever it starts it sounds like there's 1 or 2 misfires in the exhaust right before it starts.

CobraMarty

Clean the IAC and give it time, the ecu has to learn. Might need a slight adjustment on the TB butterfly stop.

What is 13.5psi and 14.7psi? Do you mean AFR?

I thought you didn't have the original Sprintex 7th injector? Or did they send you one? I told you the other injector O rings are slightly small and need to use the sprintex O rings to solve the leak problem.

Great to hear it is running.

CoffeeCommando

Man I was tired last night. Yeah I meant AFR not PSI.

Affirmative on the O-Rings. I missed that previously. I will change happy to glad on those if I find the fuel pressure dropping off enough after trying to get it to start (meaning I suspect a leaky injector)

Should I swap the IAC location to the sprintex supplied location? I know it came with one and I haven't looked at them to see if they are the same or not. I know they were used on the aussie setups but discarded for use for some reason with the US supplied. Are you still using the OEM manifold IAC?

I'm using the 7th injector just like you. I didn't want to upgrade all 6 injectors otherwise I would have used the Avenger.

BTW, anyone wanna buy an avenger?

CoffeeCommando

Fuel pressure is fine and steady.

I relocated the wideband 02's to the engine ground and now it's giving the proper readings of 12.5~ under boost. The electrician grounded it to a bolt under the kick panel area. Even I know better than that.

Tomorrow I'll pull out the IAC and clean it. Coming down off of boost after holding it at 3000 RPM's it kept stumbling and stalling, even after restarting.

EDIT:

When I relocated the grounds that day I was just using simple alligator clips to verify it was the grounding point before I rewired it. After I soldered and relocated it to the ground though, 1 sensor is still off while the other is accurate and it keeps switching between the two (I don't know if I mentioned that before but it's been doing that). The one that's not accurate at the time reads stupid lean at 17+ or just goes blank from being too high.

Any ideas why that might be?

EDIT 2:

I let it idle up to 180 and sit for about 10 minutes. Afterwards I looked underneath to make sure there were no fluids leaking and saw that one cat was glowing red. I think they had the 02's connected backwards (OEM connectors). Yesterday they were unplugged when I was checking the signals and they (widebands) were both reading 11.5-13~. I plugged them back in last night after finishing everything. As they are plugged in they barely reach to their current positions and swapping them I wouldn't be able to plug either one in. I'm going to leave them disconnected for the time being.

Edit 3:

It was still orange so I disconnected the post-cat 02's. I let it idle for about 5 minutes since it was already a little orange and I let it cool down to not glowing. It wasn't orange after letting it idle and flooring it. When above 4000 RPM's it's at 12.5~ AFR consistently while the other bank is at 11.5. As it nears idle it gradually increases to lean AFR. At 3500 it's 13.8-14.2 and at 3000 it's 14.7~. At idle when the engine is at 180+ it bounces from 14 to 18/no reading.

Why is only 1 bank running lean like this if the split second unit only controls the 1 extra injector? I have disconnected the only sensors that have any relation to the 1 bank. I'm about to do a computer reset procedure.

Edit 4:

Reset didn't change a thing. It's giving the same readings so I'm not going to bother letting it heat up to the point of glowing exhaust parts. This is weird because when I drove it off that night it was always around 14.5~ (jumping higher and lower) while cruising at 1500 RPMs.

The next day I drove it as far as the U-Haul 10 miles away and towed it down to Florida. The only thing I've done since then is disconnect and reconnect the OEM 02 sensors. Maybe the jarring around in transit did something physically. I don't see how that would affect strictly 1 bank of cylinders though unless there was a crack in the pipes, but if there was then the engine would be running extra rich to compensate for the lean, and disconnecting the 02's completely should have brought it back down to normal anyways if that was the case; however, 02's connected or not makes no difference in the reading. Yet... a crack would make sense given that at under higher RPM's air wouldn't be getting in the pipes due to sheer exhaust volume. But even in that scenario there's no reason for it to get so hot that it turns orange when I have the sensors removed to prevent rich/lean feedback to the ECU.

I'm going to go out there with a flash light and see if I can see anything. I'm probably going to have to have it smoke-checked though because it's cramped down there with those cat-converters.

Edit 5:

I checked the tune on the SS box, and it didn't start injecting fuel or timing retard until 11 PSI. I called the speed shop and they never looked at it because he said I rejected them dyno'ing and tuning it at the end (which is completely false, the subject was never mentioned).

So now I'm inputting the numerical data cell by cell which is a bit of an annnoyance since I've done it 3 times already and have to do it again.

What's your base tune Marty? I keep getting a solid 10 reading while it runs like crap then shuts off. Smells like fuel in the garage now.

I originally had 4 on map table B at 1 PSI scaling up a single point for each following cell. Then I went down to 1.5, and now I've gone down to .2 scaling up by .2 points and I still have the same results. Is the manual wrong about table B being used for the fuel when using the additional injector setting? I'm starting to think so.

Timing retard is 1 at 1 PSI and 3 at 6 PSI now. I had it at 1 point for each pound but after the horrible startups I dropped it (it wasn't running any retard before and it sounded fine anyways).

I'm going to zero out the timing retard and put .1 increasing up to .6 for 1 to 6 PSI on the "fuel map table B". I wish these damn cells would display properly instead of cutting off the numbers where I can't see them vertically and horizontally.

Edit 6:

I'm an idiot. It was set for gauge pressure versus vacuum pressure. It started and ran at 12.5 AFR~ for idle even though I didn't start adding fuel until 1 PSI.

Time for a new belt. They used a random bolt to secure the bottom bracket supporting the SC and it was pushing into the belt which has 1 rib ripped off of it now. FYI, don't ever take a Jeep to Majestic Motorsports.

Edit 7:

I got the new belt on and cranked it up to let it idle to operating temperature. It consistently worked its way from high 14's to the 17's (jumping back and forth the whole way) and blank after reaching temperature. I turned off the lights and crawled underneath to find the bank 1 cat-converter glowing and shut it off.

Is it possible I have coincidentally developed a dead injector after wiring the widebands to the engine block? I still hear it having mis-fire under load.

After reading about causes and leaky injectors being one of them I'm wondering if that's the reason my AFR evens out when I open the throttle all the way up. I'm going to try swapping bank 1 and 2 injectors individually until the problem moves to the other 02 gauge.

Edit 8:

Problem solved.

CoffeeCommando

I'm not seeing much difference in the AFr starting with 1ms @ 0hg scaling up 1 ms each half pound of boost. It won't go rich until about 4000+ RPMs. Is the SS box not clamping the MAP at 4.6 volts?

I was just thinking and 10ms is neutral meaning it's the equivalent of the pulsewidth it's receiving from the ECU. It seems like while it's learning that using 10 as a starting point at 1 PSI, or maybe 2, and scaling up 1 ms per full PSI would be a good way for the ECU to learn since the 7th injectors is pulsing the same as the rest of the injectors at that setting. The ECU is going to scale the other 6 back anyways while it's learning until I find out why it's not entering open-loop under boost, unless I'm only pushing 1 PSI at 4000 RPM's which I highly doubt.

I'm going to try that tomorrow and see if I can get the AFR to actually read appropriately for boost. I increased it to what it is now and it actually displayed leaner when I throttled it for the first few seconds after flooring it while idling in the garage.

I'm ready to scratch the methanol itch but I need to get the numbers right first. I think I'll just run pure distilled/reverse osmosis'ed water for a few weeks before methanol.

I'm also not happy with the location of the injection. It's upstream of the throttle in the air-intake. Have you ever tried that Mart? I read somewhere where one person running a subaru with a MAP sensor had it read maximum lean for 2 hours after installing it like that, while others don't have a problem at all.

CobraMarty

My head is spinning.

The MAP sensor, SS box and SC bypass valve all must be plumbed to the intake manifold so it sees vacuum and boost. Put small zip ties on the connections to prevent leaks and blowoffs.

Buy an ELM327 bluetooth OBD2 adapter and Torque 'PRO' from the android app store $5 and view 'Fuel Status' that will tell you open/closed loop in real time.

The 7th injector goes below the TB pointing into the SC. Here is a pic looking up from underneath to the SC intake manifold. It shows the Meth injector nozzle pointing to about 8:00 position and the 7th injector is above it barely seen. Both shoot into the SC. Take a pic where your's is located.

CobraMarty

The SS tables are correct as programmed by Mark at SS. I forget if gauge or absolute pressure reading. It might not seem right but it is. IIRC it looks like it comes on at 10psi in the table or something like that. I will ask my son. Don't change them.

CoffeeCommando

1. The Tune: Ph*ck. I changed them and didn't save the original. I'll call split second and see if I can get them to email me a copy of the original tune and load it back on there.


2. The MAP: I didn't think about it but the MAP sensor IS still in the stock position at the TB so it only sees vacuum. You said to locate it so that it sees both vacuum AND boost. Where is yours located? I could get another vacuum T and hook it up to the one supplying the Meth and SS box I guess. Those are seeing boost. You can't have too many T's on a single supply line can you?

3. The Ugly: When I'm in your position under the jeep according to that picture you can't see a thing. The catalytic converters block everything. I've been considering the idea of getting an older ECU with the older ignition and fuel injectors if I have any problems with them in the future.

4. I'll take pictures today.

CobraMarty

It will not go into open loop with the MAP plumbed as stock under the TB unless WOT and over 3500rpm and not seeing boost.

I took the MAP sensor off and capped the nipple on the TB and removed the rubber elbow from the MAP sensor. Then reinstall the MAP sensor in the same location, good as anywhere, and add a new hose from it to the hose supplying the SS box and Meth. Actually I would just d/c the meth hose for now and plug it into there. You can hook up the meth and 'T' it in later. Either way. Not ideal having 3 things all 'T'eed into each other off one nipple but it will be fine as they are all just sensing vac/boost.

I drilled and tapped the sprintex intake manifold for 2 extra 1/8"NPT and 1/4"NPT for the IAT sensor. You can't use the IAT that was supplied and in place with the sprintex. It was for their other 'Perfect Power' box that didn't work.

Don't need older ECU, ignition and injectors.
If anything I would get older style header without the cats. So you have 2 cats just after the headers and then a 3rd under the jeep? Do you have 3 or 4 O2 sensors. Outline your exhaust with cats and O2 sensors from the head to tailpipe.

Remind me, what year is your XJ? '99? '01?

The cats and headers glowing red on new engines is very common when still breaking in the engine.

CoffeeCommando

It's a 2000. There's only the 2 cats at the headers. There isn't a 3rd one. 4 total 02 sensors (2 pre 2 post).

After letting it relearn the rear bank temporarily glowed orange for a few minutes and went back down to normal metallic color as well. It doesn't glow anymore and sounds fine when I throttle it. I'm going to get the registration renewed and pick up some vacuum hosing for some extra T'ing.

I left a message for SS to call me back or just email me the tune. They're on Ca time so they don't see that for another 2-3 hours.

CobraMarty

Is that a california emission vehicle?
4 O2 sensors- should be fine but some of the '05-'06 TJs and the earlier California 4 O2 sensor vehicles have 'difficulty' going into open loop even with boost going to the MAP sensor and need a SS Enricher to control the front O2 sensors and let it go rich in closed loop.
You can test this with the OBD scan tool and watching open/closed loop - at idle it will be closed loop and if you d/c the vac line to the MAP sensor it will go to '0' vacuum and should go into open loop. If not, you will need the Enricher.
With the Torque PRO you can see exactly where you stand with the open/closed loop.

CobraMarty

I wonder if all your 4 O2 sensors are correct. Rockauto lists 4 different O2 sensors for your vehicle, all different but the difference might be only the cable length or plug, IDK. I like the NTK O2 sensors best.
here- click cart
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/rafr...7b035509b469b6

They are all different but one of the companies list 1 O2 sensor that will do any position and has different leads in kit. The 'Standard Motor sensor'.