PeterB

My last 2000 Jeep GC Limited I purchased with only 600 miles and got over 310K on her. Unfortunately NYDay I had a low speed collision and StateFarm did not think she was worth repairing. About 90 days ago I took the $4k they gave me added another $1k I purchased a used 02 Overlander 4.7 from a private party with 100K on her.



Here's the skinny; She runs fine for days on in and all the sudden you go to turn the key and no power? Battery terminals are connected fine with no corrosion. I've checked connections under the hood, kinda like, near the front passenger side with my a friend holding the ignition key in the on position. A couple times she started up, I've cleaned the connectors, used dialectic on them and made sure they were tight. This one here;




Truck runs fine for a few days, then you go to get in her and no power? One time I actually thought that maybe it was related to the shifter, ignition and even the brake but I don't believe that's the case any longer. I pushed the car forward, backwards nada. My life long policeman friend Lou mentioned he had the same issues year back with a starter on the Cadi, when you struck the starter or slammed the hood it would start? Another friend Billy mentioned he thought it was a grounding issue? Frankly with Child support payments, health insurance costs and everything else that's involved I cant afford to start replacing parts or take her to the dealer for repairs. Its been ongoing every few days since I purchased her.

Also sometimes while still seated inside the car after I park and put the key in the off position, I hear all these (sounds like) wires pulling, AC vents doors opening closing near under front glove compartment inside the front area. This goes on for 30-50 seconds? No idea what that's about ?? Would anybody have any ideas on this?

Fyi This morning I was leaving the house to go to my 3rd graders baseball game. I opened the door to the car (parked in garage) interior lights where fully bright. Put key in ignition and turn, no power? Click. Sounds like battery is dead, click click. No power, map lights extremely dim. Gauges on front cluster are moving up and down? I played with it for about 20/30 min, I didn't appear I couldn't get it going today at all. All of the sudden I had power and she starts right up?? The idle was erratic, ran for a couple minutes and then died out. No power again? I have not been able to get her back up although battery is fully charged. Now she sits in the garage useless with no power ??

Does anybody here have any what it may be or any suggestions on where to start? Thank you.

Very truly yours,

PeterB.

PS I 'd like to ad that this vehicle was purchased from an unscrupulous retired mechanic. He buys these jeeps with blown engines, trans and what have you. Fixes them up to running condition (rebuilds engine etc.) and them sells them for a thousand, fifteen hundred dollar profit. Had I known he was a scammer like this I would not have purchased this vehicle from him but have now discovered the above mentioned. He won't take my calls and refuses to help me. Even though he promised that everything worked and that it was in perfect running condition. Nice pickle I have myself in ha?

huntingman2706217

I wouldn't consider a guy that buy fixes and sells jeeps a scammer... This is is a common trade for all vehicle enthusiasts... more than likely when he sold it everything DID work fine...

Thanks being said the fact you sometimes do and sometimes don't have power and that's not related to jump starting I would say u do have a power or ground problem... somewhere you are losing connection temporarily... your gauges and everything freaking out is a sign of them re calibrating as well as your vehicle running weird after you do get it running again... The ECM is more than likely resetting also... check your battery connections yet again... not just at the battery but also between the wire as is stand battery clamp... check your small positive wire from the battery all the way to whatever it leads to... check your ground from the battery to the block... take it loose on both ends and clean away...

PeterB

Thank you Huntingmam, I appreciate your suggestions and am very grateful for your help/post response.

I followed your suggestions. When inspecting closer, I noticed some build up so I took a wire brush to them and greased them a little. I threw in a new Interstate Battery and she started right up! I'm not sure if that's my problem or not, the in dash Volt meter always read 13 as it does now? Maybe old battery had a dead cell and was clinging to her last breath no idea only time will tell.

Again I appreciate you taking the time to help. Its people like you that make Forum like these so helpful and beneficial to all.
Props out to you for being that guy Travis. Kudos to you!

Respectfully,

PeterB.

PS. While I agree wholeheartedly that there are good honest retired mechanics that make an extra buck servicing vehicles. That Wesley guy gives mechanics a bad name. Not returning my half dozen phone calls over the past two weeks, even to say hey, I'm sorry I sold you the car go get it serviced somewhere else. Or I'm happy to help you but its $80 hr or whatever his position maybe. To not return calls, where I know the man through a friend of a friend is disgraceful in IMO. To boot when I had a problem with a cruise control pump shortly after purchase I saw him remove mine and switch it out with another Jeep he was working on? Now the next guy wont have cruise either? After these incident is when I formed my opinion and would never refer that person to anyone, I'm sure no one else would as well.

PeterB

I've also noted that there are two grounds which the same mentioned mechanic never grounded out as should be.

When I asked him about it he said, don't worry about it, you don't need these?? There are plenty of other grounds in this SUV.

Would anyone happen to know what these two greenish flat wire grounds do or where these two grounds belong? These here;



Here's where they begin, that nut to the right of this plug-



There also appears to be another ground there in between the transmission dipstick and the oil one? Note photo below.

Would anyone know what this does and where it goes is a puzzle to me;



I would not think twice to take it to a dealership for service and get them to figure it out.
Yet my economic situation isn't it as best as it could be, as a result I will roll up my sleeves and screw them in where they belong as long as I have an idea where.

Thanking you in advance for your help.


___________Go BlackHawks! Go______________________________

Kingfisher

If it fails to crank again try tapping the starter with a hammer handle or something.
If that makes it crank, it's the starter or solenoid.

huntingman2706217

he said he loses power to his lights and everything... that doesnt indicate a bad starter


All those ground you have in your hands DO need to be attached... these jeeps really need more grounds then what is provided from the manufacturer... where they go i couldnt tell you... i havent done a WJ motor in years now and forget... more then likely to the transmission bolts on the bellhousing but anywhere on the motor itself will be good... i wouldnt get excited or anything as im not sure this will fix your problem... i believe its more of a ground problem from the battery to engine block or the positive wire connection from the battery to the rest of the system... no so much the wire to the starter as thats all it does is start the vehicle...

PeterB

Thank you Kingfisher. I appreciate your suggestion post.
Its all good, I'm anxious to repair please keep any suggestions coming.

Btw My lifelong LEO friend had also suggested that bumping the starter bit. As I mentioned he had an issue with a Cadi that did that. I tried it with the Jeep but nada here.

My other buddy Billy with the fleet of about 20 landscaping trucks also suggested the same as HuntingMan. I'm of the opinion you guys may be on the right vibe with the ground fault. Especially with this mechanic that rebuilt the left side of the engine and put back what he felt he wanted to and left out the rest?

I'm going to stop by the dealership tomorrow and see if I can discreetly speak to one of the mechanics, slip him a $awbuck show him some photos on my IPhone and see what he has may have to say. Being an 02 it may not be fresh information to them but we'll see.

I'm also going to ask the service writer what the costs in to have them replace the grounds (Maybe an hour. Hondo?) How much could it possible be? Problem is here in Chicago you really need to be extremely leery as they will try and get you for a nickel, 7, eight hundred plus if your not really careful. Diagnosing fees, you can use towards your repair or you owe it and what have you...

Also I have no clues what all these extra noises I hear once the ignition is off are?
Best I could describe it is, auto vents closing or wires pulling vents shut or ? No idea. Anyone? Thank you Gentlemen.

PeterB.


PS One last thing I wanted to ask about is that sometimes the AC button light comes on by itself. Even when the climate control is in the off position? I don't believe this is normal operation as when I manually push the AC button with the climate control in the off position it does not light.

Would anyone know about this too?





Thanks again men, all the help is greatly appreciated. Good night.


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Kingfisher

How true!
Guess I didn't read carefully
My bad!

huntingman2706217

Your AC light is your compressor... it will come on when you use defrost in any sort... This is so during the winter it'll still get some rotation and lubricate the pump... This way it doesn't sit all winter and freeze up...

nwagtmustang

The sounds you hear is the hvac doing a calibration of the motors and blend doors. I dont know if its an actual calibration but its normal. My 99 does it.

PeterB

Thank you Nwagt. I couldn't make heads or tails out of all that noise. 1st time I had to take a second glance; I thought my stomach was growling or that I'd had one to many GlenMorange's single malt scotches

These vehicles have really progressed over my 2000 limited. All the way to the Radio. Even though I was informed by my previous seller that it didn't even have the right radio in it (which supposedly controls your MPH gas consumption or so I was told?) Is still quite fascinating satellite telling you who's playing and who's talk hosting.

Thanks again guys Enjoy your day and gooooooBlackHawks!!

PeterB.


Btw Nawgt does your AC light automatically come on too even when the climate control is in the off position?

fishbone

I'm a little confused here about your first post. When you say the lights went dim and you couldn't crank the engine, no power, did you actually check the state of charge on the battery? I ask because you said the battery was fully charged. How do you know the battery was fully charged? Also, the noises you hear after shutting off the vehicle ARE NOT NORMAL operation, nor is it normal for your ac light to just come on unless you are running the air conditioning. Yes it is true that when you run the defroster the compressor also runs but, it is not air conditioning thus the light should not be coming on. Those grounding straps you show in your picture that are simply hanging, NEED TO BE CONNECTED. They should be connected to a bolt on the intake manifold, also a transmission bell housing bolt will provide sufficient ground. I suspect you have an open circuit somewhere drawing power when it shouldn't be drawing power. If and I said "if" that is the case, a new battery will only hide this problem for a few days or weeks at best. Finding an open circuit is a pain in the you know what. However, if you have a voltage meter, connect it to the battery after you have shut off the vehicle with NO ACCESSORIES on and watch the voltage drop. It really shouldn't drop much lower than 11 volts. If you see it dropping below and down into the single digits, you have a draw and need to find it. If you see a big drop in voltage the best way to start trying to find the circuit is to remove fuses one at a time and see if it stops. Even if you identify the circuit, it will likely be difficult finding the actual offender. This usually occurs when there is a bad wire within the circuit or a bad switch or a bad ground.

PeterB

Good morning FishBone.

I really appreciate you taking the time to diagnose my issues with my new vehicle. It took over a week and over 220 views about 5% response yet it appears the Jeep Forum has come through with your post. Fishbone your tech response was outstanding. Brief to the point, easy to understand and I believe based on your explanation you are 100% on it. AwesomeSauce! Lol. You're the best! What do I owe you? Wink. Dinner n drinks are on me if you ever get by me. Thank you guy.

Yes, when the Overlander was functioning and I thought the black wire connector in the back was an issue. The battery was fully charged and operational, eventually the car refused to start and everything was dead with the exception of the map lights being dim. When Travis (HuntingMan) suggested cleaning the terminals and following that ground, I thought to check the battery charge again. To my surprise it was now dead. I cleaned all the terminals and replaced the battery. The vehicle has been operational the last 3 days and based on your explanation I would think this battery would eventually fail as well as the issue is not fully resolved. I will investigate further and try to determine where those grounds go (did you notice the other missing ground between the dipsticks?) I believe that to be a ground as well. Open draw is probably whats causing all the weird stuff to occur as you so eloquently explained.

I'm up and running but still no conclusion to the electrical madness just yet.

Thanks again, your post response was outstanding! Thank you.

Respectfully.

PeterB


PS. I wonder if there is some kind of engine schematics I can get my hands on on line to view exactly how this engine is put together? I'll have to check later or if anybody knows where to start I'd be grateful. Taking my 3rd grader son to school now. TTYGL

PeterB

FYI - Just now per FishBone's suggestion I took a meter to the newly installed Interstate battery.

With everything off it read 12.81v

Turned the engine on, meter reads 13.87 fairly close to the dummy meter in dash.

Turned car back off. Meter dropped slowly back down to 12.85 and stayed there for a good 10/15 min.

It doesn't appear I have a draw correct or should I left it sit longer. I'll do overnight tonight & doable check it in the AM?

Secondly I'm considering temporarily taking that flat grounds I'm holding in the photo above, cleaning them, greasing it and attaching it to the negative battery terminal bolt with second nut on it. If anything that would ground it also right? Then I'll get a chance to see if there are any noticeable significant changes.

I'll keep you this post updated. Any other suggestion would be greatly appreciated gentlemen.

Enjoy your day and thank you.

Very truly yours,

PeterB.

PS. Just for an FYI after dropping of my son at school I stopped by the Chrysler Jeep dealer to try and get a tip on where those grounds actually go. Try to talk to a mechanic but ended up by the service writer. I explained my circumstances and tried to sugar coated a bit to not seem so extreme. He said it may take 6-8 to determine what ground goes where ? WTF 6-8 hours! I said thank you I left the Vaseline at home, smiled wished him a good day and walked away.

My interpretation as I surmised in my earlier post probably a $1000+ service call. Amazing ins't it?




Go BlackHawks!!

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fishbone

Ok first of all is that an actual picture of you? Are you really Billy Crystal?
You certainly look like him.

You're welcome for the help although I am no expert and certainly not a Jeep expert, I do have some professional experience however it was with a Ford dealership. The voltage readings you have reported are normal. Keep in mind that on all modern vehicles there will be some amount of draw after the vehicle is turned off due to: security, radio memory, cpu memory....etc. However, consider that it is a new battery and that the draw can take sometime. So, yes please check it again in the morning and report back your findings. It is possible that everything you did solved your problem. Once again I will say that these electrical problems can be a pain in the butt. As for those grounding straps, just find a bolt on the manifold and connect them....do not connect them directly to the neg. term. on the battery and do not use grease. You want a clean and tight connection in fact it's probably best if you scratch off some of the metal with a wire brush, piece of sand paper, steel wool, etc. before you tighten to ensure it's clean. If you feel the need to protect the connection, you can put a little grease on your finger and rub it around the connection...after you tighten it. If you are not comfortable finding a bolt to connect them to, I can probably find you the location tomorrow as I am away on business right now.