Rotorhead

I've been suffering from the infamous Windows only roll down using the driver controls problem in conjunction with an intermittent door lock problem.


Windows:
The infamous problem with only being able to roll down the windows with the driver door controls. The small green LEDs in all the window switches are not lit. BOTH THE DRIVER DOOR CONTROL MODULE AND THE PASSENGER DOOR CONTROL MODULE HAVE BEEN REPLACED WITH NEW UNITS. I have pulled back the rubber boots in the doors and looked for broken wires on both sides. The only thing I haven't done (because I bought a new switch) was to jump the window lockout circuit at the plug in the driver foot kick panel.

I'm not sure what else it could possibly be. Am I missing something?


Locks:
My locks don't work at times. Sometimes the switch is completely dead, sometimes only unlock works, sometimes only lock works. And sometimes it works fine. On both door switches. And again, both the control units in the front doors are new units.

Something related I discovered today is that the door lock switch on the driver side (didn't test passenger side) goes completely dead if the door dinger/chime/buzzer/whatever you want to call it is active. My ignition switch must be worn because the dinger usually doesn't work. You have to press the key in and hold it to make the door dinger work.


Ideas?

Rotorhead

Update: Okay so since I first made this thread I decided to go tinker with this a bit more. For giggles I jumped the window lockout switch at the connector in the driver footwell area. All the windows work. So even though the driver door module was brand new, it is still broken. FML.

Still haven't gotten anywhere with the door locks.

max95xj

Just for kicks, check your #9 fuse to see if it's broken. That is usually tied to the window lock circuit if it's broken.

Bugout4x4

My 97 is doing this also. I know it is because of dirt roads and abuse. I have yet to find the issue but I suspect the driver's control unit because it all goes though there first. And the switches on these leave a lot to be desired


Once again, I would like to reiterate how much I hate Automotive Engineers. Wish I could get one in here to try and defend themselves in a debate against unfair business practices

Rotorhead

Its actually the passenger door control unit (in Left hand drive models). It houses all circuitry and relays for the power locking system in the XJ.


I might have made some progress with the door locks. I think when I initially tested the door locks with the new passenger door control unit, the keys were in the ignition and it was in acc mode. So that would keep the locks from working correctly. I swapped the old control module back in there while tinkering with this and noticed that if I jiggled the connectors while holding a switch down, the relays and locks would cycle rapidly because the connector wasn't making a very good connection. With the new passenger door control module, I do not have this problem. Wiggling the connections does nothing. And the locks appear to work fine. I'll have to drive it for a while to see if I have any problems.

Rotorhead

Will do. Under the hood or passenger footwell?

Bugout4x4

[QUOTE=Rotorhead;3132499]Its actually the passenger door control unit (in Left hand drive models). It houses all circuitry and relays for the power locking system in the XJ.



This is my engineering complaint, The pin connectors. What were they thinking? I hope you don't mind me sharing a story about pin connectors with you.


So I have this 94 3500 Cummins RAM with the Automatic OD "Pressure" trans. It starts to kick it's self out of overdrive now and then when we hit a bump. Then it starts Kicking it's self out of OD and then throwing it's self in neutral, Then it starts kicking it's self out of OD, then into neutral, Then the Red "Trans Hot" light comes on.


This is over a period of about three months before the Trans temp light finally kicks on to give me an idea of what the heck is going on and direction to check. So it turned out to be just the pin connectors on the Trans Temp sensor putting the computer through it's safety sequence.


Here's my question? Why did the Engineers sequence this backwards? It should have given the Temp light first, then shift out of OD to give you a second warning, Then kick into neutral as a "Limp" mode.


THIS WAS DONE ON PURPOSE! Can you imagine how many folks were duped into thinking their Trans was bad and replaced it just because of the way Chrysler Engineers sequenced the warning protocols backwards? A pin connector on the Trans temp sensor sold a lot of transmissions that there was actually nothing wrong with.


This is outright fraud, deception and Bad Business Practices, It was designed to confuse the normal driver and even an experienced wrench like myself! Just ain't right.


Point is, I'll bet it is in the pin connectors. Another thing to check is the new unit was assembled with white lithium lube on the internal slides of the switches. White lithium dries up after awhile and becomes hard. They may have to be used for a bit to move some of this lube away from the connectors before they make a good connection and become reliable in operation. The longer they sit on the shelf, the longer it takes to move the lube off of the contacts before they start to work correctly.


Were you able to pinpoint the A/C problem? I was going to suggest purging a bit to see if it was indeed a high pressure problem. But if I was wrong you would have been without A/C at all until you got it charged again! lol.

Rotorhead

Not yet. I did a bit of trouble shooting and updated my thread. https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/air...rm-air-213285/

BlueRidgeMark

How did you look for broken wires? A visual inspection? They can be broken inside the insulation, and you'll never see it. You need to do a proper continuity test, and you need to wiggle the wires while doing the test. This requires about 4.5 hands, give or take, or some good alligator clamps or other self-fastening probe.

Another problem you can have is that you can be down to just a few measly strands of wire, with the rest broken, and neither a visual inspection nor a continuity test will show that problem. But once you put some load on it, it won't carry enough current to move the windows.

Same thing can happen with corrosion. A corroded connector can show the correct voltage, and pass a continuity test, but not carry enough current to operate your [whatever].

To check for those faults, you need to test for voltage under load. That is, hook up your voltmeter to measure the voltage, and while you are measuring it, operate your [windows, headlights, radio, whatever].

Rotorhead

I tested the new driver door module I bought. The window lockout circuit was broken. So that's why replacing it didn't help me. I am having it replaced under warranty and I should be good to go.

Bugout4x4

And there is always that. There seems to be a lot of that going around lately. Bad parts new out of the box. But it shouldn't be so bad that we now have to suspect the new part as a first cause. Man...

BlueRidgeMark

Maybe it has something to do with "Made in China"


Thank you for nothing, Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton.

Bugout4x4

You forgot Carter in there I think the worst times I have seen yet was during his administration. And it was at the wrong time for me as a young man trying to get started in life.


You called it on this one for sure, Check the Circuits, even on new stuff!

TwistedWrench

Yup. It used to be SOP that we'd replace all sensors and ignition components when doing an engine job. Not any more, I pull the old ones, clean em up, put em in the new engine. Especially with the old school stuff, I have a box of crusty old condensers in my bottom drawer. "I just did a tune up on my Mustang and now it doesn't start/runs like crap." First thing I do is toss that shiny new condenser in the trash, pop in an old one. 90% of the time that clears it right up.

And sadly, the Pertronix "under cap" electronic ignition conversion is no longer viable, now days 4 outta 5 kits are dead turds right out of the box. I set em up with point systems using Motorcraft and Blue Streak parts. Or if the client is ok with a non-oem look, I convert to a Duraspark II system.

On the Foxbody Mustangs, gone are the days of replacing power window motors and lock actuators, now I rebuild em, the replacement units are absolute garbage.

johnnyfd

I had OOS window control on the passenger front, and the driver's side rear. They would only work with the driver's control (I think the rear might not have worked at all, but too late to double check that). After finding a pretty good consensus on the forums that it's the window lock switch, I was about to by pass it when I came across this video. It worked like a charm. I haven't put it all back together yet, but so far so good.