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Old 02-14-2012, 08:52 PM   #1
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I have a '97 XJ automatic that will not start. When the key is turned I get interior dash lights coming on, but nothing from the starter. I'm guessing that it is a nss problem since I have no lights when in reverse and due to the intermittent nature of my problem. The starting issue has happened twice before.

I read about a test to bypass the nss by putting a jumper on the pigtail socket. I started out by disconnecting the wrong pigtail socket. The pigtail in the red box below is what I believe to be the correct nss connection, but I inadvertently disconnected the pigtail adjacent to it and tried to jump the connections. Realizing my mistake I reconnected the pigtail and removed the correct one for the nss.

Click the image to open in full size.



I then used this diagram to determine which pins to jump with a spare wire I had laying around. This diagram didn't exactly match my plug as there was an extra pin in the lower bottom (around where the diagram shows the number 6).

Click the image to open in full size.

I initially jumped A and E, turned the key and my backup lights worked! Awesome...I thought I had this figured out. Then I jumped B and C and got nothing...disappointment...I then figured since my pigtail layout didn't exactly match the diagram to use trial and error. On connection B and E or B and A, my starter worked and the engine turned over. However...I cannot get the engine to start (and this never was a problem before). Its like it isn't getting any fuel. The engine turns over but can't get running.

Does anyone have any recommendations here? I am pretty sure that the nss is bad, but now it seems I have a new problem with getting the engine started. Any thoughts? Thanks.
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Old 02-14-2012, 09:28 PM   #2
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Your no start condition may be a result of your first jumper attempt on the wrong harness. Have you looked at all of your fuses to make sure they're not blown?

The NSS is a simple mechanism, there's a lever with spring-loaded copper pins that's attached to a rotating post that protrudes from the transmission bellhousing. Those pins complete a circuit depending on the position of the lever which is in direct relation to the position of the shift lever. Instead of all this jumping and troubleshooting of the harness, why not just pull your NSS and clean it? It's like saying you don't want to drive a dirty Jeep but instead of just washing it, you cover the entire thing in duct tape so no one sees the dirt. You can do that but it's not the best solution

In my experience, which I'll admit, is minimal, NSSs rarely "go bad". The factory dielectric grease solidifies in the housing and gums up the contacts, preventing it from working properly. Take it apart, scrub the contacts, re-grease and you're ready to rock and roll!

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Old 02-14-2012, 09:40 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Addict View Post
Your no start condition may be a result of your first jumper attempt on the wrong harness. Have you looked at all of your fuses to make sure they're not blown?

The NSS is a simple mechanism, there's a lever with spring-loaded copper pins that's attached to a rotating post that protrudes from the transmission bellhousing. Those pins complete a circuit depending on the position of the lever which is in direct relation to the position of the shift lever. Instead of all this jumping and troubleshooting of the harness, why not just pull your NSS and clean it? It's like saying you don't want to drive a dirty Jeep but instead of just washing it, you cover the entire thing in duct tape so no one sees the dirt. You can do that but it's not the best solution

In my experience, which I'll admit, is minimal, NSSs rarely "go bad". The factory dielectric grease solidifies in the housing and gums up the contacts, preventing it from working properly. Take it apart, scrub the contacts, re-grease and you're ready to rock and roll!
X2

I Cleaned mine about a month ago and it works perfect. Also have reverse lights again

After checking your fuses from what you were talking about, spend an extra hour to clean & lube the nss.

Check it out http://bc4x4.com/tech/2010/jeep-neut...ty-switch-nss/
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Old 02-15-2012, 05:23 AM   #4
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Thanks for the info, guys. I had read others experiences with removing the nss that sounded like it wasn't the easiest thing to remove. I was only jumping the harness to test to make sure that was the culprit, not for a permanent fix. Unfortunately, since I removed the wrong harness and fiddled with that it may be that I have blown a fuse.

Does anyone know what that other harness goes to and which fuses I should start checking?
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Old 05-28-2012, 12:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czyhorse View Post
I have a '97 XJ automatic that will not start. When the key is turned I get interior dash lights coming on, but nothing from the starter. I'm guessing that it is a nss problem since I have no lights when in reverse and due to the intermittent nature of my problem. The starting issue has happened twice before.

I read about a test to bypass the nss by putting a jumper on the pigtail socket. I started out by disconnecting the wrong pigtail socket. The pigtail in the red box below is what I believe to be the correct nss connection, but I inadvertently disconnected the pigtail adjacent to it and tried to jump the connections. Realizing my mistake I reconnected the pigtail and removed the correct one for the nss.

Click the image to open in full size.



I then used this diagram to determine which pins to jump with a spare wire I had laying around. This diagram didn't exactly match my plug as there was an extra pin in the lower bottom (around where the diagram shows the number 6).

Click the image to open in full size.

I initially jumped A and E, turned the key and my backup lights worked! Awesome...I thought I had this figured out. Then I jumped B and C and got nothing...disappointment...I then figured since my pigtail layout didn't exactly match the diagram to use trial and error. On connection B and E or B and A, my starter worked and the engine turned over. However...I cannot get the engine to start (and this never was a problem before). Its like it isn't getting any fuel. The engine turns over but can't get running.

Does anyone have any recommendations here? I am pretty sure that the nss is bad, but now it seems I have a new problem with getting the engine started. Any thoughts? Thanks.

This is what I want to try as well (while awaiting new NSS after I cracked mine trying to take it off to clean).
I think it should be jumping B and C (I remember it being about a black wire and one black-with-white-stripe wire.
My questions on this:
1) which end of the connection: the NSS side or the other side?
2) how do I jump pins? do I take them out and connect 'em together, or push a paperclip in the back of the wires, or?

My thanks for your advice on this.
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
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This is what I want to try as well (while awaiting new NSS after I cracked mine trying to take it off to clean).
I think it should be jumping B and C (I remember it being about a black wire and one black-with-white-stripe wire.
My questions on this:
1) which end of the connection: the NSS side or the other side?
2) how do I jump pins? do I take them out and connect 'em together, or push a paperclip in the back of the wires, or?

My thanks for your advice on this.
When I tested mine, I used a small paper clip to jump the back side of the connector (with it plugged into the harness) on the NSS side. I tested for both neutral/park bypass (PINS B & C) and for reverse lights (PINS A & E). I've written before that I don't believe it makes any difference where you jump and would guess that you could disconnect the NSS altogether and jump the pins in the harness but this would render your reverse lights inoperable but typically, if you find yourself at this stage of the game, they don't work, anyway. Also, I'm not certain what the other functions of the NSS are, specifically the 1-2 and 3 jumpers, they may provide ground to one or more of your transmission servos.

Just remember, with the jumper in place your starter will engage when you turn the key, regardless of what gear your transmission is in. That means that if your try to start in one of the drive gears (1-2, 3, D, or R) your Jeep will lurch in that direction when the starter is engaged so I only recommend this for the purpose of testing and not as a work-around.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:08 AM   #7
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[QUOTE=F1Addict;1799234]When I tested mine, I used a small paper clip to jump the back side of the connector (with it plugged into the harness) on the NSS side. I tested for both neutral/park bypass (PINS B & C) and for reverse lights (PINS A & E)...[QUOTE]


Thanks for this F1; one question regarding the paperclip trick. When you say 'jumped the back side of the connector', do you just push the paperclip in (so kinda alongside the wire going in) or do you remove the wires and put the paperclip in their spots?
Just double checking, as it appears that the wires do not leave any space to push a paperclip in next to them and I dont want to do any permanent damage and not being able to drive at all.
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:45 AM   #8
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We may have slightly different plugs ('89 vs. '97) but I was able to get the clip between the wire and the rubber seal by pulling the wire to the side which created a small gap between them. I pushed the clip in far enough that I assumed it was making contact with the metal pin. Don't force it, though, you don't want to damage the pigtail on your NSS.
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Old 05-29-2012, 12:02 PM   #9
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Quote:
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We may have slightly different plugs ('89 vs. '97) but I was able to get the clip between the wire and the rubber seal by pulling the wire to the side which created a small gap between them. I pushed the clip in far enough that I assumed it was making contact with the metal pin. Don't force it, though, you don't want to damage the pigtail on your NSS.
Thanks for this, is much appreciated.
I'll try in on the NSS side of the connectors first if I cant get it to start in P or N to see if this will do the trick.
If I jump incorrectly,what will happen? blow a fuse?
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Old 05-29-2012, 01:54 PM   #10
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Yep, the worst that will happen is that you'll blow a fuse. However, as long as you confirm that you are jumping the correct pins, this won't happen.
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Old 05-29-2012, 02:43 PM   #11
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To get a reliable contact to back probe, (connect while connected), testing my 02 sensor, I stripped about 1-1/2 inches of really fine stranded copper. I was able to put in in the small female socket, fold it back, and put it together. Idea being that being stranded and small enough, it didn't bend/enlarge the socket.
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I RECOMMEND 280 155 746 INJECTORS FOR YOUR 87-90 JEEP. Four holes are better than one, and they won't leak out the middle, (like stock can).
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:01 PM   #12
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To get a reliable contact to back probe, (connect while connected), testing my 02 sensor, I stripped about 1-1/2 inches of really fine stranded copper. I was able to put in in the small female socket, fold it back, and put it together. Idea being that being stranded and small enough, it didn't bend/enlarge the socket.
Did you disconnect the pigtail and jumper the pins on the inside? I could see this being easy enough and with thin enough gauge wire, it wouldn't be likely to harm the connector. My only concern would be that with something like the starter (which draws a LOT of current), you might risk smoking that fine copper. However, since I believe it's only providing a ground to the solenoid, there's probably not much load. Definitely worth storing away in the memory banks as an option.

I was considering permanently affixing taps and installing an "NSS BYPASS" switch in the passenger compartment... Until I grabbed some cajones and rebuilt my NSS. I still have the taps and a pigtail in my cargo box (along with a Bosch fuel pump, CPS, ignition module, vacuum line, and an endless list of spares) just in case I ever need to limp down a mountain or out of a desert or help a fellow Jeeper limp home.
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Old 05-29-2012, 03:51 PM   #13
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Thanks guys, I'll keep you posted on this to share to outcome.

The backprobing sounds the least 'invasive' technique and worth the shot. (the stranded little wires might be a bit weak to push down along the wires that will only alow a small tight space next to them in the connector if you back probe them, maybe a flattened end of more solid wire could be an option, we'll see).
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Old 05-29-2012, 07:24 PM   #14
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No!. I don't think I wrong again here. It's only doing some mil-amps for the relay which is handling the solenoid current. The supper thin copper seems to fit OK. (the stranded can lay flatter, allowing a decent size)(from the point of view of a relay coil). That same gauge wire, solid would be two or three times thicker. (guessing). The wire I used is larger than phone wire by a little, but for a relay, if it was supper short even phone wire aught to do it. Sorry,

For the solenoid windings you want some "oof", there, that babys gotta kick. Before we had relays for that, people use to add them, (a relay), so the solenoid current didn't need to go through the dash.
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The book is wrong! #1 is at 5:00, viewed from the side. 153624 clockwise.
I RECOMMEND 280 155 746 INJECTORS FOR YOUR 87-90 JEEP. Four holes are better than one, and they won't leak out the middle, (like stock can).
THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS THERE FOR A REASON, AND IT AIN'T SQUIRREL HUNTING. (engines can be run on rendered fat)









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