New Heater Control Valve Leaks again :(

Dr ZEE · 11-24-2009, 09:18 PM

Hi, guys, I was wondering if anyone faced such situation and maybe could give me a tip on what to do now.
When I've got this jeep, one of the first things I did were replacing leaking heater control valve and old rusty and leaky radiator.
I've got the new valve unit from Advanced Auto Parts ..the one for $18.
So now (that's about a month plus later) I see that new valve leaks prety much the same way as the old one was leaking. It leaks through the valve's lever hole. It seems that it leaks only when the temp. control is turned low (cold), and especially when I just start the cold engine. But if the contol turned to High (Hot), then it does not leak.
I've made pictures and close-up (see attached).
So, guys, am I facing just a defective new valve or could there be something else that may bring the the good valve to a failure "state".
Does anyone have the new valve from Advanced that works fine? I am thinking should I get a different part (try form NAPA or maybe Autozone ??) , or just get another one from Advanced. Based on pictures, that I've seen, They all seem to be kinda' very similar plastic construction units.

thanks in advance for advice or a thought or something

Abovetimberline · 11-24-2009, 09:32 PM

Looks just like mine,most of these parts I found are made by the same company,I would just have the store warranty it,if it fails again then try someone else.
I do not think your system would cause it unless you have a heating issue or alot of vibration.

Dr ZEE · 11-24-2009, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abovetimberline

Looks just like mine,most of these parts I found are made by the same company,I would just have the store warranty it,if it fails again then try someone else.
I do not think your system would cause it unless you have a heating issue or alot of vibration.

thnaks

Yeah, they all look the same also priced about the same.
Now, that's an easy replacement, still pita, especially if I have do it again and again .grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Now, I don't have my second truck now... so I have to drive the jeep to get there... so can't return it for exchange .arghhhhhhhhhh
I may try to get one from NAPA ...also chances are that it will be the same thing

I think I am going to replace all the hoses and those ugly clamps this time then, so this will make me feel like I am doing something different ...

Abovetimberline · 11-24-2009, 10:24 PM

Drive it there then release the pressure and remove the valve,and return it,take a little water to top it off,just rinse down any antifreeze that may spill. Might need some gloves.

94CountryXJ · 11-24-2009, 10:57 PM

I removed mine. Simply ran the lines to the core and it blows hot air within 2-3 minutes from taking off in the morning, did NOT affect the engines cooling or the heater.

Dr ZEE · 11-24-2009, 11:38 PM

Uh, guys, good thinking!

That's possible but I kind of not in the mood for this sort of "adventure" at the moment ... I'll call Advanced first , explain the situation and ask if it would be possible to buy another new valve and then after I replace it to return the "defective" one for refound. If not, then I'll just swallow minus eighteen bucks. It just is not worth the headache, and Life isn't fair anyway.

Dr ZEE · 11-25-2009, 05:43 PM

Hi Guys,
ok update about what happened today

***********
first of all I'VE GOT IT WRONG!!!! when I described the "leaking situation" yeasterday. I don't know how I've got it wrong..but well, I did

Today I was "investigating" again when it leaks and when it does not...so It was leaking when the valve is OPEN, that is, (if I understand it correctly) ... when the vacuum is NOT sucking and the lever is UP, and so the coolant runs from the pump through the valve into heater core and then from heater core back through the valve - to the engine.
When the lever is down and the valve is "CLOSED" the coolant runs from the pump, hits the "closed valve", makes "u-turn" in the valve unit and goes to the engine.
The valve is open when the climate control is "ON" and the temperature level is set to anywhere above "COLD".
So the unit was leaking when the "Heat is ON" , when the coolant runs through the core. (And it is NOT as I described first time around, sorry for that).
Now, here's the thing, that leak was not consistent... it's like sometimes it leaks pretty bad, sometimes just a drop, sometimes does not leak... OK, so forget all that ... this gives me headache already

*************
So, I've decided to go aheaed and just get the valve unit out first, take a look at it etc... When I've got it out, I looked close to it, moved the lever ...it's all looked just like new and seemed to be fine ...but then again, so what???
So I 've decided to call Advanced and maybe to ask whether or not they get those things returned often or sometimes. Then I looked for the receipt and could not find ithe damn thing...grrrrrrrr, I usually keep them all , but I guess I missplaced that one .. so at this point I figured - forget about Advanced ... just replace it with a new one.
Then As I was on it I've just decided to do something that often been advised , but I never cared about (since the heater seemed to work fine) and it was - flushing the heater core.
So I've got garden hose out , and did the flush. I did it first one way - and the water was not dirty or anything and there was some amount of coolant there (also I have fresh coolant in the system, since I've just replaced the radiator).
And then I switched the hoses and backflushed the core again, and this time the water was somewhat muddy somewhat grey-ish (especially the first portion) and there were some small particles in there and few large pieces of red RTV ..arghhhhhhhhhhh. Then I let the water to run through the core for few more minutes...it was pretty clear then, though.
So after that, I reinstalled the valve , started the engine with rad-cap off, ran it for some time , sqeezed hoses, got some air out and all that.
So then I closed the rad, re-started, ran it to heat it up, went through all possible Heater Control setting, took it for a ride.... so far no leak.

I still have to keep eye on it and see if it will start leaking again, so I am not sure at this point, if it will start leaking again, I'll report later here. But my speculation (or say - theory) is: MAYBE!!! due to some crap in the core the restriction of the fluid flow brought the pressure up to somewhat higher level than "expected" and so that valve is not designed to handle it. ???? Maybe it's a bad theory...

So I don't really know, but that's my current situation, so I just wanted to share. I 've made few pics. Will attach some photos with comments.

thanks agin, guys, for your input

Abovetimberline · 11-25-2009, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the update,let us know how it goes.

redmuck · 11-25-2009, 08:45 PM

sounds like that gasket junk and the rest of the junk would get stuck in your new valve when its closed off from heatercore for cold air, therefore jamming it up some. it just makes you wonder how the rtv gets in there in the first place.

Dr ZEE · 11-25-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abovetimberline

Thanks for the update,let us know how it goes.

Yeah, I will sure drop a note here if the coolant will dare to show up again in that lever hole. I just took the jeep again for a short ride after few hours of cooling the engine. I was switching the heater control/fan/AC on and off, hot to cold etc while driving. Came back, checked it out, so far - looks perfectly dry there, not a drop

I'll see how it goes, especially after a cold night in the morning.
Now, here's a thought ..heh heh, IF!!!! the partially clogged core played the role in that leak, then chances are, that the "old" valve unit that I removed (which was leaking in the same manner...also, I did not investigate then) was also just fine ..., well, who knows, I will never find out as I trashed it ...so there

The other thing is, I wonder if I have somewhere in-there some more mighty chunks of bloody-red RTV gasket that are hanging on hair-thin leashes and are ready to deploy ...just waiting for the "right moment".... ah huh huh ...

Dr ZEE · 11-25-2009, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmuck

sounds like that gasket junk and the rest of the junk would get stuck in your new valve when its closed off from heatercore for cold air, therefore jamming it up some.

hmmm, I don't know...maybe this would be possible..but I kind of don't think so based on looking into that valve unit through the fittings and pressing it down / letting go - closing and opening, that is. It looks like all that is - it's a small metal "turning plate" inside (sot of like a spinning-door) . When it is "closed" the coolant simply gets in through "in" fitting", hits the valve "plate", and comes out through the "out" fitting ... so another words, when the valve is "closed" it's like having a single hose connecting the pump back to the engine. Well, I guess a large chunk can stuck in the valve unit when it's "closed", but it has to be a big one

Quote:

Originally Posted by redmuck

it just makes you wonder how the rtv gets in there in the first place.

my guess was - water pump gasket??? I have no clue really ....

Dr ZEE · 11-25-2009, 10:18 PM

In case somebody may "wonder" how that thing works, as I was puzzling myself for sometime

, I've made these pics, to show what goes where when the valve is open and closed.
That is as I understand it, hope I am correct. Someone who knows for sure, If I'm incorrect, please, correct me .

!!!!! >> EDITED << !!!!!!!

Dr ZEE · 11-25-2009, 10:21 PM

OR am I completely reversing the directions. ???????

arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh Could someone please clear this up ...heh heh

84supersport · 11-26-2009, 04:03 PM

When I bought mine from my buddy he said it had a new one in it too. Looks brand new. It leaks a drop here and there. I know we've put a handleful of different ones in it. He said he was told they just leak all the time. That its really common. I wouldnt remove it though because then it will be hot in the cab all the time.

sandstone · 11-26-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84supersport

I wouldnt remove it though because then it will be hot in the cab all the time.

Are you sure about that? Newer cherokees don't have a heater control valve; their heat is controlled by doors around the heater, as is the heat in all of the Chrysler products that I've ever owned, except for my '96 cherokee which does have a heater control valve. I too have wondered if taking it out and just routing the hoses straight to the heater would be OK.

11-24-2009, 09:32 PM	#2
Abovetimberline CF Veteran Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chico,ca Posts: 2,158 My Photos 89 Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AW4 Transfer Case: 242 Front Axle: D30 Rear Axle: D44 Tires: Junk at this point	Looks just like mine,most of these parts I found are made by the same company,I would just have the store warranty it,if it fails again then try someone else. I do not think your system would cause it unless you have a heating issue or alot of vibration. __________________ Marry the right person it will determine 95 percent of your happiness or misery. Remember that old saying,you can be right or you can be happy,I choose happy. 89 xj in progress D44,4"x 2" lift 72 Restored chevy truck 4x4,lockers,built 350,approx 400 hp.

11-24-2009, 10:24 PM	#4
Abovetimberline CF Veteran Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chico,ca Posts: 2,158 My Photos 89 Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AW4 Transfer Case: 242 Front Axle: D30 Rear Axle: D44 Tires: Junk at this point	Drive it there then release the pressure and remove the valve,and return it,take a little water to top it off,just rinse down any antifreeze that may spill. Might need some gloves. __________________ Marry the right person it will determine 95 percent of your happiness or misery. Remember that old saying,you can be right or you can be happy,I choose happy. 89 xj in progress D44,4"x 2" lift 72 Restored chevy truck 4x4,lockers,built 350,approx 400 hp.

11-24-2009, 10:57 PM	#5
94CountryXJ Junior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 57 My Photos 1994 Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AW4 Transfer Case: NP242 Front Axle: D30 Rear Axle: 8.25 Tires: 31's Lift Specifications: 5" front/5.5" Rear Misc Accessories: Adj LCA's, 3" Dynomax engine back	I removed mine. Simply ran the lines to the core and it blows hot air within 2-3 minutes from taking off in the morning, did NOT affect the engines cooling or the heater. __________________ 94' Country XJ, 00' 4.0 swap/AW4, D30/8.25, 5" front/5.5" rear sitting on 31x10.5's for now (soon to go to 33's). 1" TC drop RE LCA's, Dynomax 3" from engine back (no cat), K&N, oil/trans and PS coolers. Alpine CDE-103BT, Kenwood components all around, Alpine 4 channel amp under the back seat.

11-24-2009, 11:38 PM	#6
Dr ZEE Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York, USA Posts: 238 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Engine: 4.0L I6 Transmission: auto Transfer Case: 4x4 C-Trac 4 position Front Axle: D-30 Rear Axle: C-8.25 Tires: Mix Bag "special" :( Lift Specifications: Stock on bent "autumn leafs" :) Misc Accessories: u-haul tow kit, no rear seats - full room :), 200K+ runs like butter on hot frying pan :)	Uh, guys, good thinking! That's possible but I kind of not in the mood for this sort of "adventure" at the moment ... I'll call Advanced first , explain the situation and ask if it would be possible to buy another new valve and then after I replace it to return the "defective" one for refound. If not, then I'll just swallow minus eighteen bucks. It just is not worth the headache, and Life isn't fair anyway. __________________ mike / dr z

11-25-2009, 05:43 PM	#7
Dr ZEE Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York, USA Posts: 238 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Engine: 4.0L I6 Transmission: auto Transfer Case: 4x4 C-Trac 4 position Front Axle: D-30 Rear Axle: C-8.25 Tires: Mix Bag "special" :( Lift Specifications: Stock on bent "autumn leafs" :) Misc Accessories: u-haul tow kit, no rear seats - full room :), 200K+ runs like butter on hot frying pan :)	Hi Guys, ok update about what happened today ********* first of all I'VE GOT IT WRONG!!!! when I described the "leaking situation" yeasterday. I don't know how I've got it wrong..but well, I did Today I was "investigating" again when it leaks and when it does not...so It was leaking when the valve is OPEN, that is, (if I understand it correctly) ... when the vacuum is NOT sucking and the lever is UP, and so the coolant runs from the pump through the valve into heater core and then from heater core back through the valve - to the engine. When the lever is down and the valve is "CLOSED" the coolant runs from the pump, hits the "closed valve", makes "u-turn" in the valve unit and goes to the engine. The valve is open when the climate control is "ON" and the temperature level is set to anywhere above "COLD". So the unit was leaking when the "Heat is ON" , when the coolant runs through the core. (And it is NOT as I described first time around, sorry for that). Now, here's the thing, that leak was not consistent... it's like sometimes it leaks pretty bad, sometimes just a drop, sometimes does not leak... OK, so forget all that ... this gives me headache already *********** So, I've decided to go aheaed and just get the valve unit out first, take a look at it etc... When I've got it out, I looked close to it, moved the lever ...it's all looked just like new and seemed to be fine ...but then again, so what??? So I 've decided to call Advanced and maybe to ask whether or not they get those things returned often or sometimes. Then I looked for the receipt and could not find ithe damn thing...grrrrrrrr, I usually keep them all , but I guess I missplaced that one .. so at this point I figured - forget about Advanced ... just replace it with a new one. Then As I was on it I've just decided to do something that often been advised , but I never cared about (since the heater seemed to work fine) and it was - flushing the heater core. So I've got garden hose out , and did the flush. I did it first one way - and the water was not dirty or anything and there was some amount of coolant there (also I have fresh coolant in the system, since I've just replaced the radiator). And then I switched the hoses and backflushed the core again, and this time the water was somewhat muddy somewhat grey-ish (especially the first portion) and there were some small particles in there and few large pieces of red RTV ..arghhhhhhhhhhh. Then I let the water to run through the core for few more minutes...it was pretty clear then, though. So after that, I reinstalled the valve , started the engine with rad-cap off, ran it for some time , sqeezed hoses, got some air out and all that. So then I closed the rad, re-started, ran it to heat it up, went through all possible Heater Control setting, took it for a ride.... so far no leak. I still have to keep eye on it and see if it will start leaking again, so I am not sure at this point, if it will start leaking again, I'll report later here. But my speculation (or say - theory) is: MAYBE!!! due to some crap in the core the restriction of the fluid flow brought the pressure up to somewhat higher level than "expected" and so that valve is not designed to handle it. ???? Maybe it's a bad theory... So I don't really know, but that's my current situation, so I just wanted to share. I 've made few pics. Will attach some photos with comments. thanks agin, guys, for your input Attached Thumbnails __________________ mike / dr z

11-25-2009, 05:56 PM	#8
Abovetimberline CF Veteran Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Chico,ca Posts: 2,158 My Photos 89 Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AW4 Transfer Case: 242 Front Axle: D30 Rear Axle: D44 Tires: Junk at this point	Thanks for the update,let us know how it goes. __________________ Marry the right person it will determine 95 percent of your happiness or misery. Remember that old saying,you can be right or you can be happy,I choose happy. 89 xj in progress D44,4"x 2" lift 72 Restored chevy truck 4x4,lockers,built 350,approx 400 hp.

11-25-2009, 08:45 PM	#9
redmuck Senior Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: south bend indiana Posts: 706 My Photos 1991 Cherokee Engine: 4.0 i six H.O. Transmission: aw4 Transfer Case: 231 Front Axle: dana 30 Rear Axle: dana 35 Tires: 31 inch general grabber at2's Lift Specifications: 3 inch	sounds like that gasket junk and the rest of the junk would get stuck in your new valve when its closed off from heatercore for cold air, therefore jamming it up some. it just makes you wonder how the rtv gets in there in the first place.

11-25-2009, 10:18 PM	#12
Dr ZEE Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York, USA Posts: 238 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Engine: 4.0L I6 Transmission: auto Transfer Case: 4x4 C-Trac 4 position Front Axle: D-30 Rear Axle: C-8.25 Tires: Mix Bag "special" :( Lift Specifications: Stock on bent "autumn leafs" :) Misc Accessories: u-haul tow kit, no rear seats - full room :), 200K+ runs like butter on hot frying pan :)	In case somebody may "wonder" how that thing works, as I was puzzling myself for sometime , I've made these pics, to show what goes where when the valve is open and closed. That is as I understand it, hope I am correct. Someone who knows for sure, If I'm incorrect, please, correct me . !!!!! >> EDITED << !!!!!!! Attached Images __________________ mike / dr z Last edited by Dr ZEE; 12-31-2009 at 02:46 PM.

11-25-2009, 10:21 PM	#13
Dr ZEE Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: New York, USA Posts: 238 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Engine: 4.0L I6 Transmission: auto Transfer Case: 4x4 C-Trac 4 position Front Axle: D-30 Rear Axle: C-8.25 Tires: Mix Bag "special" :( Lift Specifications: Stock on bent "autumn leafs" :) Misc Accessories: u-haul tow kit, no rear seats - full room :), 200K+ runs like butter on hot frying pan :)	OR am I completely reversing the directions. ??????? arghhhhhhhhhhhhhh Could someone please clear this up ...heh heh __________________ mike / dr z

11-26-2009, 04:03 PM	#14
84supersport Member Garage is empty, add now Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 143 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Engine: 4.0L HO I6 Transmission: Auto Tires: 31s Lift Specifications: 2" Econo Lift	When I bought mine from my buddy he said it had a new one in it too. Looks brand new. It leaks a drop here and there. I know we've put a handleful of different ones in it. He said he was told they just leak all the time. That its really common. I wouldnt remove it though because then it will be hot in the cab all the time. __________________ 1996 Cherokee XJ Daily: 31s, 2" lift, cut fenders 1984 Monte Carlo SS: 355, longtubes, true duals, pro-stick, 3" springs front and 275s rear on rallies, daily duty retired

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11-26-2009, 04:37 PM