Lockers in front or rear? - Page 2

84wagoneer · 11-23-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by itsanxjthing

I think people need education on the difference between a locker and a spool. A spool is always locked. Period. A locker can be turned off and makes your diff open again.

that is true for a selectable locker, ie. ARB, ox, or e-locker.

a spool replaces your spider gears and connects both axle shafts together permanently.

a locker can either replace your whole carrier (detroit locker), or just the spider gears (aussie locker). when the axleshaft speeds need to differentiate, the locker has teeth that can disengage from eachother, permitting that the locker isnt under load.

so sorry to burst your knowledge bubble, but you need a bit of education on the differences of either.

rivercrazy · 11-23-2009, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonnyb78

i am leaning towards front. i feel tha the front being locked will help get me up obstacles as well as help pull on hillclimbs and big rocks. mines a daily driver and we get a decent amount of snow so i am getting a selectable locker for sure. my friend is locked just in the rear and he hates it.

I agree. Mine is a DD and we get a lot of snow here too. I never really thought about it making snow driving squirly. I thought it would help, but not if its locking when you dont want it to. Selectable would be really nice, but thats a bit more money and a harder install.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84wagoneer

a spool replaces your spider gears and connects both axle shafts together permanently.

a locker can either replace your whole carrier (detroit locker), or just the spider gears (aussie locker). when the axleshaft speeds need to differentiate, the locker has teeth that can disengage from eachother, permitting that the locker isnt under load.

Exactly. Thanks for clarifying. Also, Abovetimerline, locking one hub is a locking hub which connects or disconnects you axle shaft to the differential. That's not a locking diff.

89eliminator · 11-23-2009, 09:12 PM

i locked my rear end first with a full detroit. i was kinda new to the MJ scene and didnt know how locking the front would work with not having lockouts. with that being said, i think its a horse a piece whether you lock the front or rear first.

case in point: i went wheeling with bmyohn along with some other folks. he has an aussie in the front and open rear, i at the time was open in front, detroit rear. both rigs are setup up kinda similar, main difference is wheelbase (XJ to MJ) and he has 35s while im on 33s.

obstacle we both attempted

obviously getting the front tires up the wall was the hardest part. he pretty much walked the front right up while i had to apply way more throttle. after the wall, there was another small ledge that get the front over. i couldnt get my front up it. he could, however his rear end wasnt able to climb up the remainder of the wall because he is open. so to sum it up, we both ended up needing a winch in the same spot backing up my statement that locking front or rear is about equal.

CrawlnCoupe · 11-23-2009, 09:25 PM

imo, if you looking for most traction you'd prolly wanna do the front first. as stated before, most of your weight is in the front. and to whoever said weight transfer plays a big portion. it does to a degree, but realistically how weight transfer do you have when your going though a mudhole? the more traction you have with the pulling tires (front) the better off you are as opposed to the rear tires that are pushing. i would say if you do alot of winter driving though, i would look into a selectable locker in the frontend. on that note i did a aussie in the back a few months ago, and doing a selectable in the springtime, thinking a ox locker is gonna be the ticket for me.

itsanxjthing · 11-23-2009, 09:35 PM

I like to watch videos on youtube like that.

I dont know how this got posted to this thread... crazy

itsanxjthing · 11-23-2009, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 84wagoneer

that is true for a selectable locker, ie. ARB, ox, or e-locker.

a spool replaces your spider gears and connects both axle shafts together permanently.

a locker can either replace your whole carrier (detroit locker), or just the spider gears (aussie locker). when the axleshaft speeds need to differentiate, the locker has teeth that can disengage from eachother, permitting that the locker isnt under load.

so sorry to burst your knowledge bubble, but you need a bit of education on the differences of either.

Auto lockers, but they do open.

Abovetimberline · 11-23-2009, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rivercrazy

I agree. Mine is a DD and we get a lot of snow here too. I never really thought about it making snow driving squirly. I thought it would help, but not if its locking when you dont want it to. Selectable would be really nice, but thats a bit more money and a harder install.

Exactly. Thanks for clarifying. Also, Abovetimerline, locking one hub is a locking hub which connects or disconnects you axle shaft to the differential. That's not a locking diff.

I know exactly what it is,I have manual hubs on it and leave it unlocked so it is not a locker and will drive as if it was not,by doing so that wheel has nothing to do with traction just follows where ever I point it and does not try and push me in the ditch. I know what lockers are and how they work.

PingPong · 11-24-2009, 07:31 AM

I personally run lockers front and rear in my rig now, but back when I was starting out... I ran one in the front, and a factory LSd in the rear.

My theory was it is easier for the jeep to pull it slef up the hill, then push it. Not sure if my thinking is right.. but that is the logic I used.

Richliveshots · 11-24-2009, 08:43 AM

Well I intalled my rear locker first, that was this year in February. It worked great in the snow and it really dug in but, on black ice and really slick mud like red clay, i could turn it around on a dime cause now i had both rear wheels brake free and if the terrain had a tilt at all like a road with a high crown you had to be quick to pull your foot out of the throttle pop it in 4 and ease back in to it. Then it would grab and straighten out. So i started to drive in part time on the road in the ice more and take it out to go around the corners. So I think driving habots need to change when you install a locker. I just installed my front locker a few weeks ago and haven't really had a chance to go test it out yet. This is a great thread, it will be interesting to hear the different opinions and experiences. Thanks for thinking of it!

Heres a before and after video of mine.
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...ker_637399.htm
VOTED!

Puertorricancherokee · 11-24-2009, 09:47 AM

Here we dont get snow, ever!!! But we get plenty of rain, so we have a lot of fun mud wheeling

Best part is after you get beck on the road, splashing mud to avery car on your side hhehehehehehe!!!!!!!

PS the day we get snow on the caribbean, then the world is coming to an end

rivercrazy · 11-24-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abovetimberline

I know exactly what it is,I have manual hubs on it and leave it unlocked so it is not a locker and will drive as if it was not,by doing so that wheel has nothing to do with traction just follows where ever I point it and does not try and push me in the ditch. I know what lockers are and how they work.

That's cool. I didn't know if you had a locking differential in front because all you were saying is you were locking your hubs which does not necessarily mean you have a locking differential. Manual hubs is something I would like to add when I put a locker in front on mine. That way I choose when its locking or not (without having a selectable) and I can still drive it home in case I break a shaft or blow up the front diff.

rivercrazy · 11-24-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richliveshots

Well I intalled my rear locker first, that was this year in February. It worked great in the snow and it really dug in but, on black ice and really slick mud like red clay, i could turn it around on a dime cause now i had both rear wheels brake free and if the terrain had a tilt at all like a road with a high crown you had to be quick to pull your foot out of the throttle pop it in 4 and ease back in to it. Then it would grab and straighten out. So i started to drive in part time on the road in the ice more and take it out to go around the corners. So I think driving habots need to change when you install a locker. I just installed my front locker a few weeks ago and haven't really had a chance to go test it out yet.

Yah! That sound a little "Dukes of Hazardish!" lol. Let us know how the front locker works for you!

caged · 11-24-2009, 10:42 AM

i think locking the front first is more beneficial than the rear. mainly because the d30 is much stronger than the d35 c-clip.

but for everyday driving, in 2wd with the rear auto locked, not selectable, it gets a little crazy when in rain or snow. harder to control on a sloped (crowned) surface, as mentioned.

but for the front, if driven daily should get a selectable locker, so when in 4 hi, you can have the open diff in the snow, otherwise your not turning when you steer. and on the trail you can lock it when needed and run open most of the time.

then later, lock the rear too.
as mentioned, just the front or rear makes about the same difference on an obstacle. but locking the front will help the tires climb a flat surface rather than the rear just pushing the front wheels up, or rather into it.

i vote the front first. but selectable, and only if you have 31 to 33's and the non disconnect d30.
you can lock the vac disco axle if you have stock to 31's, but that's it with those puny 260 joints. you'd be pushing it with 33's.

rivercrazy · 11-24-2009, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by caged

i think locking the front first is more beneficial than the rear. mainly because the d30 is much stronger than the d35 c-clip.

but for everyday driving, in 2wd with the rear auto locked, not selectable, it gets a little crazy when in rain or snow. harder to control on a sloped (crowned) surface, as mentioned.

but for the front, if driven daily should get a selectable locker, so when in 4 hi, you can have the open diff in the snow, otherwise your not turning when you steer. and on the trail you can lock it when needed and run open most of the time.

then later, lock the rear too.
as mentioned, just the front or rear makes about the same difference on an obstacle. but locking the front will help the tires climb a flat surface rather than the rear just pushing the front wheels up, or rather into it.

i vote the front first. but selectable, and only if you have 31 to 33's and the non disconnect d30.
you can lock the vac disco axle if you have stock to 31's, but that's it with those puny 260 joints. you'd be pushing it with 33's.

Thats what I'm thinking. What do you think about running a non-selectable locker (i.e. Detroit) with manual locking hubs for the snow and in the event of breakage??

dillo · 11-24-2009, 01:08 PM

If you lock the rear you can do donuts! and that pretty cool

View Poll Results: Would you put a locker in front or rear axle?
Front	13	31.71%
Rear	28	68.29%
Voters: 41. You may not vote on this poll

11-23-2009, 09:12 PM	#18
89eliminator ::CF Moderator:: Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Waterford, WI Posts: 1,448 My Photos 1989 Comanche Year: 1989 Comanche Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AW-4 Transfer Case: 231 Front Axle: HP 30, 4.10s Rear Axle: 44, detroit locker, 4.10s Tires: 33x10.5 BFG M/T Lift Specifications: 6.5 Misc Accessories: winch, armor	i locked my rear end first with a full detroit. i was kinda new to the MJ scene and didnt know how locking the front would work with not having lockouts. with that being said, i think its a horse a piece whether you lock the front or rear first. case in point: i went wheeling with bmyohn along with some other folks. he has an aussie in the front and open rear, i at the time was open in front, detroit rear. both rigs are setup up kinda similar, main difference is wheelbase (XJ to MJ) and he has 35s while im on 33s. obstacle we both attempted obviously getting the front tires up the wall was the hardest part. he pretty much walked the front right up while i had to apply way more throttle. after the wall, there was another small ledge that get the front over. i couldnt get my front up it. he could, however his rear end wasnt able to climb up the remainder of the wall because he is open. so to sum it up, we both ended up needing a winch in the same spot backing up my statement that locking front or rear is about equal. __________________ 89 MJ with a whole bunch of homebuilt crap http://www.WI4x4.com

11-23-2009, 09:25 PM	#19
CrawlnCoupe Seasoned Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: indiana Posts: 250 My Photos 97 Cherokee Year: 97 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: auto Transfer Case: 231 Front Axle: hp 30 Rear Axle: c 8.25 Tires: 33x10.5x15 mud terrains Lift Specifications: 4.5" rough country	imo, if you looking for most traction you'd prolly wanna do the front first. as stated before, most of your weight is in the front. and to whoever said weight transfer plays a big portion. it does to a degree, but realistically how weight transfer do you have when your going though a mudhole? the more traction you have with the pulling tires (front) the better off you are as opposed to the rear tires that are pushing. i would say if you do alot of winter driving though, i would look into a selectable locker in the frontend. on that note i did a aussie in the back a few months ago, and doing a selectable in the springtime, thinking a ox locker is gonna be the ticket for me. __________________ 4.0 aw4 8.25/hpd30 4.5" rough country lift 33" mud terrains/34" super swampers tsl's b & m trans cooler aussie locker in 8.25 Last edited by CrawlnCoupe; 11-23-2009 at 09:33 PM..

11-23-2009, 09:35 PM	#20
itsanxjthing I like it in the dirt Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Alberta Canada Posts: 1,799 My Photos 1989 Cherokee Year: 1989 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: AX15 Transfer Case: NP231 Front Axle: Dana 30 Rear Axle: Dana 35 Tires: KL71 215/75/R15 Lift Specifications: Stock Misc Accessories: CB, 8500lb Superwinch Roxolid Front Bent to $417 rear. '00 Injectors swap	I like to watch videos on youtube like that. I dont know how this got posted to this thread... crazy __________________ It's An XJ thing, a step above the Jeep thing 89 Cherokee Laredo 2dr CB Superwinch Kumho Road Venture M/T's http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZItfE70ehI CBW Member #42 Strong and Proud Search and ye' shall receive Last edited by itsanxjthing; 11-23-2009 at 09:35 PM.. Reason: crazy

11-24-2009, 07:31 AM	#23
PingPong CF Veteran Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 1,087 My Photos 87 Cherokee Year: 87 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: ax15 Transfer Case: np231 Front Axle: d30with alloys and locker Rear Axle: d44 w/alloys discs and locker Tires: 33 dunlop mud rovers Lift Specifications: RK 3 link Misc Accessories: chopped, caged, 4 points and some other junk added	I personally run lockers front and rear in my rig now, but back when I was starting out... I ran one in the front, and a factory LSd in the rear. My theory was it is easier for the jeep to pull it slef up the hill, then push it. Not sure if my thinking is right.. but that is the logic I used. __________________ http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/ http://www.mpjai.com/vbulletin/index.php http://community.webshots.com/user/cj7xjmj Sheet metal fears me.

11-24-2009, 08:43 AM	#24
Richliveshots Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 228 My Photos 95 Cherokee Year: 95 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 HO Transmission: auto Front Axle: dana 30 Lock Right locker Rear Axle: 8.25 Lock Right locker Tires: BFG 33x12.5x15 KM2 Lift Specifications: 4.5 Rough Country Misc Accessories: Eight 100 watt spot search lights, 2 piller police spots, VORTEX 10,000 LB WIRELESS WATERPROOF WINCH	Well I intalled my rear locker first, that was this year in February. It worked great in the snow and it really dug in but, on black ice and really slick mud like red clay, i could turn it around on a dime cause now i had both rear wheels brake free and if the terrain had a tilt at all like a road with a high crown you had to be quick to pull your foot out of the throttle pop it in 4 and ease back in to it. Then it would grab and straighten out. So i started to drive in part time on the road in the ice more and take it out to go around the corners. So I think driving habots need to change when you install a locker. I just installed my front locker a few weeks ago and haven't really had a chance to go test it out yet. This is a great thread, it will be interesting to hear the different opinions and experiences. Thanks for thinking of it! Heres a before and after video of mine. http://videos.streetfire.net/video/B...ker_637399.htm VOTED! __________________ SUPPORT SEARCH AND RESCUE SO THAT OTHERS MAY LIVE! Last edited by Richliveshots; 11-24-2009 at 09:20 AM..

11-24-2009, 09:47 AM	#25
Puertorricancherokee Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Caguas, Puerto Rico Posts: 114 My Photos 1987 Wagoneer Year: 1987 Model: Wagoneer Engine: 4.0L Transmission: Automatic Transfer Case: 231 Front Axle: 35 Rear Axle: 44 Tires: 31x10.50x15LT Lift Specifications: 4.5 RC Coming soon! Misc Accessories: homemade acc	Here we dont get snow, ever!!! But we get plenty of rain, so we have a lot of fun mud wheeling Best part is after you get beck on the road, splashing mud to avery car on your side hhehehehehehe!!!!!!! PS the day we get snow on the caribbean, then the world is coming to an end __________________ RC 4.5 lift, done!... Now whats next? Darn jeep bug, leaveme alone!!! When Life gives you lemons... Drink a CORONA!!!

11-24-2009, 10:42 AM	#28
caged CF Veteran Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Guelph, Ontario, Canada Posts: 2,515 My Photos 1990 Cherokee Year: 1990 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 H.O. Transmission: aw4 with shift mod Transfer Case: 231 Front Axle: d30hp w/lock-rite Rear Axle: d44 w/lock-rite Tires: 36 inch iroks/beadlocks Lift Specifications: R.E. springs/clayton longarm Misc Accessories: m8000 / custom roof basket	i think locking the front first is more beneficial than the rear. mainly because the d30 is much stronger than the d35 c-clip. but for everyday driving, in 2wd with the rear auto locked, not selectable, it gets a little crazy when in rain or snow. harder to control on a sloped (crowned) surface, as mentioned. but for the front, if driven daily should get a selectable locker, so when in 4 hi, you can have the open diff in the snow, otherwise your not turning when you steer. and on the trail you can lock it when needed and run open most of the time. then later, lock the rear too. as mentioned, just the front or rear makes about the same difference on an obstacle. but locking the front will help the tires climb a flat surface rather than the rear just pushing the front wheels up, or rather into it. i vote the front first. but selectable, and only if you have 31 to 33's and the non disconnect d30. you can lock the vac disco axle if you have stock to 31's, but that's it with those puny 260 joints. you'd be pushing it with 33's. __________________ Epic Beard Man for the win it's a WeeN thing, you wouldn't understand a Jeep with out mud on it is really only a Chevy Trail Blazer - willys55

11-24-2009, 01:08 PM	#30
dillo Newbie Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Stillwater, Ok Posts: 3 My Photos 98 Cherokee Year: 98 Model: Cherokee Engine: I6 Front Axle: Dana 30 Rear Axle: 8.25	If you lock the rear you can do donuts! and that pretty cool Last edited by dillo; 11-24-2009 at 01:15 PM..

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