Intermittent starting problem - Page 2

thesundancekid · 11-11-2009, 04:06 AM

if you pull the starter autozone can test for free same with the battery id try those first also if you want to test the starter your self next time it happens if you have a friend around that could help tap a few times on the larger cylender portion of the starter with a hammer/wrench what ever WHILE the other person turns the key hast to be at the same time if it catches and works that way most likly its your starter

the battery can still read good on a meter at 12volts but still not have any cranking amps probably a good idear to pull it and have tested also

scifi266 · 11-11-2009, 06:09 AM

Grab a starter at your local pick a part, they only run around 30 bucks. I found that when they test our jeep starters at autozone or kragen that their machine skips the selinoid test.

I had a similar problem with a jeep that I was fixing too. Have you checked your battery cables? If it's starting and getting to places alright that rules out the starter to me, you might also want to check your alternator and check all your grounds.

ET JEEP · 11-11-2009, 08:14 AM

If you turn the key and get absolutely nothing. No click, no sound, nothing. It is your starting circuit that has a fault.

Do this. Get a short piece of 10-12 gauge wire. Remove the engine starter relay. Look at the relay pins for the pin number. Find the socket for pins 30 and 87 in the distribution panel. The socket for pin 30 is always hot with 12 volts. The socket for pin 87 is the solenoid circuit.

Now, connect one end of the wire to the socket for pin 87 and quickly touch the socket for pin 30. If the starter/solenoid is good, the starter will engage and the engine will turn over. With the key to ON the engine will start. With the key OFF the engine will just turn over. If this works, the problem is in the starting circuit. My guess it is a starting circuit problem.

This procedure can serve as an emergency start procedure.

Oh, and remove the wire if the engine starts. The wire is the ignition key.

If the above works, we can test the start circuit.

Find the socket for pins 86 and 85. Get a volt meter and a helper. Have the helper turn the key to start. Now connect the black meter lead to ground and with the red lead touch the sockets and check for voltage. You should get voltage at the socket for 86 and no voltge on the other.

It could be the reverse on the pin numbers. We just want to verify voltage at one of the pins. If no voltage you have a problem with the ignition switch side of the circuit or the wiring.

If you have voltage on one of the pin socket, ok. Now on the other dead socket you do a continuity test. Connect one lead to the socket and the other to a good ground. You should see continuity. If no continuity, you have a problem with the NSS or the wiring.

Since this is intermittent. I guess the NSS.

Start with a charged battery and good clean and tight battery cables. At the battery and at the starter.

00silverxj · 11-12-2009, 08:52 AM

you said you tried shifting it into neutral and no luck starting.

i recently had the same problem on my 2000 xj automatic.

when i pressed on the gas, and tried turning the key repeatedly while minutely moving the gear selector through the gears, about halfway into reverse, it would turn over and start...then again halfway into drive, but not when completely in any gear. This said to me that the neutral safety switch was acting up.
It's located on the passenger side of the transmission(auto only) and held in place by two bolts. loosen the two bolts a little, then slightly spin the switch then retighten. When the transmission is in neutral, there is a neutral standard line on the switch that should be aligned with the vertical groove in the manual valve shaft sticking through the switch.

XJ_SPORT · 11-12-2009, 09:56 AM

the porclein piece on the fender is the ballast resitor it controls the volts to you fuel pump

TrekkerJmm · 11-12-2009, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShadowAngel

Thought i'd ask you all, since i'm having a hard time figuring this out. 9 times out of ten, my Cherokee starts up just fine. 3 times since i've bought it, however, it did nothing when I tried to start it. It's generally after i've let it idle for some time, or drove a short distance. For instance, today was Walmart.. drove up there to get some groceries, and was back out of the store in ten minutes. When I turn the key, it chimes as usual, the number son the clcok light up, and the radio starts, but when I turn the key, it doesn't even attempt to turn over. No cranking, no click. All three times this has happened, I kept trying and eventually it'd crank up and start, but today it took a few minutes. I ended up turning the key to crank it and just leaving it there even though it wasn't doing anything, and after about ten seconds it started to crank.

If it helps... when I turn the key to crank it, the battery gauge dips down into the red and the numbers on the clock vanish until I stop trying to start it. Any suggestions..? Possibly just a battery going bad? I have no idea how old the battery is. Thanks.

My son in law had this exact problem and we finally figured it had to do with a wire going bad in the steering column so we ran a wire across the solenoid to +12 and put a heavy duty momentary switch in. Now when it does act up he just turns on the key and hits the "Start" button...Tj

85on32+4 · 11-12-2009, 02:02 PM

get under there with a soft rubber mallet and give it a mild additude adjustment...if your volt guage is dropping maybe its gettin electricty and it might be a little siezed...
happened to mine but i beat a dent into it and had to buy a new one

hupo224 · 11-15-2009, 10:08 AM

I'm going through the same issues currently. Refer to my thread here if you want (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...1014790&page=3)

The renix engines have a little bit different of a method. But as I tried again last night I got it to start 1 out of maybe 30 tries total. I'm going to double check my grounds then try to manually jump my starter. If that does not go then I will pull it and clean it and try again.

hupo224 · 11-15-2009, 11:03 AM

Ran jumper cables from the battery to the starter. It spun. So now I'm just stumped.

ET JEEP · 11-15-2009, 12:39 PM

When you say it spun. Do you mean the starter motor turned but did not turn the engine over or that yes the engine turned over with the starter?

hupo224 · 11-16-2009, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ET JEEP

When you say it spun. Do you mean the starter motor turned but did not turn the engine over or that yes the engine turned over with the starter?

Correct. What I ended up doing was bypassing the starter relay. I'm going to put a hidden push button under my dash to start the engine. The starter is fine the battery is fine and all the problem is an ignition problem.

It would spin but not turn over but then again I dont think I applied the correct power to both poles (even with the key on, oops)

ET JEEP · 11-16-2009, 12:03 PM

Ok, when you jump the starter you have to do it thru the solenoid. If you just jump the starter terminals, large terminals, the starter motor will turn but the starter will not engage the engine.

Run a wire from battery positive to the small terminal on the solenoid. If the starter is good, the starter should engage and turn the engine.

If this test checks good, your problem is with either the main power feed to the solenoid or the starting circuit thru the ignition switch and NSS.

See my post #18 this thread for checking the engine starter relay. Look at the relay for the pin numbers. Hopefully it is the same pin numbers as listed. Some relays are numbered differently.

lillybug.angel · 11-16-2009, 12:54 PM

May I ask question about my jeep?

lillybug.angel · 11-16-2009, 01:02 PM

My jeep, out of the blue start run ruff, but It then backfires. I got home somehow. Then I tried to start again, It run ruff then dies before get into drive. Not sure what's going on. I check the startplugs, & wires. any suggestion would help thanksyou.

sean882 · 11-19-2009, 04:34 AM

I had a similar problem. I found that gently tapping the starter motor with a pair of pliers would loosen up whatever corrosion is in there, and let it start right up. I saw somewhere on here that it can be cause because of oil spilling on it from the filter during an oil change. Whenever it refuses to start, i just give it a tap, and it fires right up.

11-12-2009, 02:02 PM	#22
85on32+4 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 240 My Photos 1985 Cherokee Year: 1985 Model: Cherokee Engine: 2.5 liter Transmission: 5 speed Transfer Case: i dunno Front Axle: d30 Rear Axle: d35 Tires: 32 wild country Lift Specifications: 4 in rough country Misc Accessories: sliced bumpers sunroof cargo rack	get under there with a soft rubber mallet and give it a mild additude adjustment...if your volt guage is dropping maybe its gettin electricty and it might be a little siezed... happened to mine but i beat a dent into it and had to buy a new one __________________ According to a recent survey,9 in 10 americans agree that 1 in 10 americans will disagree with the other 9.

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11-11-2009, 04:06 AM	#16
thesundancekid Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 116 My Photos 1989 Cherokee Year: 1989 Model: Cherokee Engine: straight 6	if you pull the starter autozone can test for free same with the battery id try those first also if you want to test the starter your self next time it happens if you have a friend around that could help tap a few times on the larger cylender portion of the starter with a hammer/wrench what ever WHILE the other person turns the key hast to be at the same time if it catches and works that way most likly its your starter the battery can still read good on a meter at 12volts but still not have any cranking amps probably a good idear to pull it and have tested also

11-11-2009, 06:09 AM	#17
scifi266 Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 63 My Photos	Grab a starter at your local pick a part, they only run around 30 bucks. I found that when they test our jeep starters at autozone or kragen that their machine skips the selinoid test. I had a similar problem with a jeep that I was fixing too. Have you checked your battery cables? If it's starting and getting to places alright that rules out the starter to me, you might also want to check your alternator and check all your grounds.

11-11-2009, 08:14 AM	#18
ET JEEP Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: East Texas Posts: 202 My Photos 1997 Grand Cherokee Year: 1997 Model: Grand Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: 42RE	If you turn the key and get absolutely nothing. No click, no sound, nothing. It is your starting circuit that has a fault. Do this. Get a short piece of 10-12 gauge wire. Remove the engine starter relay. Look at the relay pins for the pin number. Find the socket for pins 30 and 87 in the distribution panel. The socket for pin 30 is always hot with 12 volts. The socket for pin 87 is the solenoid circuit. Now, connect one end of the wire to the socket for pin 87 and quickly touch the socket for pin 30. If the starter/solenoid is good, the starter will engage and the engine will turn over. With the key to ON the engine will start. With the key OFF the engine will just turn over. If this works, the problem is in the starting circuit. My guess it is a starting circuit problem. This procedure can serve as an emergency start procedure. Oh, and remove the wire if the engine starts. The wire is the ignition key. If the above works, we can test the start circuit. Find the socket for pins 86 and 85. Get a volt meter and a helper. Have the helper turn the key to start. Now connect the black meter lead to ground and with the red lead touch the sockets and check for voltage. You should get voltage at the socket for 86 and no voltge on the other. It could be the reverse on the pin numbers. We just want to verify voltage at one of the pins. If no voltage you have a problem with the ignition switch side of the circuit or the wiring. If you have voltage on one of the pin socket, ok. Now on the other dead socket you do a continuity test. Connect one lead to the socket and the other to a good ground. You should see continuity. If no continuity, you have a problem with the NSS or the wiring. Since this is intermittent. I guess the NSS. Start with a charged battery and good clean and tight battery cables. At the battery and at the starter. Last edited by ET JEEP; 11-11-2009 at 08:34 AM..

11-12-2009, 08:52 AM	#19
00silverxj Newbie Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 10 My Photos	you said you tried shifting it into neutral and no luck starting. i recently had the same problem on my 2000 xj automatic. when i pressed on the gas, and tried turning the key repeatedly while minutely moving the gear selector through the gears, about halfway into reverse, it would turn over and start...then again halfway into drive, but not when completely in any gear. This said to me that the neutral safety switch was acting up. It's located on the passenger side of the transmission(auto only) and held in place by two bolts. loosen the two bolts a little, then slightly spin the switch then retighten. When the transmission is in neutral, there is a neutral standard line on the switch that should be aligned with the vertical groove in the manual valve shaft sticking through the switch.

11-12-2009, 09:56 AM	#20
XJ_SPORT Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 49 My Photos 1989 Cherokee Year: 1989 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0l I6 Transmission: BA 10/5 Transfer Case: NP231 Front Axle: Dana 30 3.55 gears Rear Axle: Dana 35 3.55 gears Tires: 31" Lift Specifications: 4.5" Misc Accessories: roof rack	the porclein piece on the fender is the ballast resitor it controls the volts to you fuel pump

11-15-2009, 10:08 AM	#23
hupo224 Newbie Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3 My Photos	I'm going through the same issues currently. Refer to my thread here if you want (http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthrea...1014790&page=3) The renix engines have a little bit different of a method. But as I tried again last night I got it to start 1 out of maybe 30 tries total. I'm going to double check my grounds then try to manually jump my starter. If that does not go then I will pull it and clean it and try again.

11-15-2009, 11:03 AM	#24
hupo224 Newbie Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 3 My Photos	Ran jumper cables from the battery to the starter. It spun. So now I'm just stumped.

11-15-2009, 12:39 PM	#25
ET JEEP Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: East Texas Posts: 202 My Photos 1997 Grand Cherokee Year: 1997 Model: Grand Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: 42RE	When you say it spun. Do you mean the starter motor turned but did not turn the engine over or that yes the engine turned over with the starter?

11-16-2009, 12:03 PM	#27
ET JEEP Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: East Texas Posts: 202 My Photos 1997 Grand Cherokee Year: 1997 Model: Grand Cherokee Engine: 4.0 Transmission: 42RE	Ok, when you jump the starter you have to do it thru the solenoid. If you just jump the starter terminals, large terminals, the starter motor will turn but the starter will not engage the engine. Run a wire from battery positive to the small terminal on the solenoid. If the starter is good, the starter should engage and turn the engine. If this test checks good, your problem is with either the main power feed to the solenoid or the starting circuit thru the ignition switch and NSS. See my post #18 this thread for checking the engine starter relay. Look at the relay for the pin numbers. Hopefully it is the same pin numbers as listed. Some relays are numbered differently.

11-16-2009, 12:54 PM	#28
lillybug.angel Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Al Posts: 15 My Photos 1992 Cherokee Year: 1992 Model: Cherokee Engine: 6 strait block	May I ask question about my jeep?

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11-16-2009, 01:02 PM	#29
lillybug.angel Newbie Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Al Posts: 15 My Photos 1992 Cherokee Year: 1992 Model: Cherokee Engine: 6 strait block	My jeep, out of the blue start run ruff, but It then backfires. I got home somehow. Then I tried to start again, It run ruff then dies before get into drive. Not sure what's going on. I check the startplugs, & wires. any suggestion would help thanksyou.

11-19-2009, 04:34 AM	#30
sean882 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 130 My Photos 1996 Cherokee Year: 1996 Model: Cherokee Engine: 4.0 HO Transmission: Auto Front Axle: D30 Rear Axle: 8.25 Tires: Stock Lift Specifications: Stock Misc Accessories: Fog Lights, Backup Lights	I had a similar problem. I found that gently tapping the starter motor with a pair of pliers would loosen up whatever corrosion is in there, and let it start right up. I saw somewhere on here that it can be cause because of oil spilling on it from the filter during an oil change. Whenever it refuses to start, i just give it a tap, and it fires right up.